So, coronavirus...

[Carter's Choice]

You know absolutely nothing about me ..... because I disagree with you, doesn’t mean I’m “trolling “ , it means I disagree.

The old "I'm not trolling I'm just disagreeing" gambit. One of the oldest and most obvious troll shticks in the book.

[Insane_Homer]

[Biffer]

Maybe you can add me to your “lists” with the neighbours....

The same person who before they went on holiday was compaining that we would see another rise in infections because of pubs opening of course. A fellow idiot from the Bimbo playbook.

It would also help if you don’t post lies about me all the time .

It annoys you so much that no one will engage you on the Scottish threads

Yeah, you can tell he gets really frustrated by that

[SaintK]

You know absolutely nothing about me ..... because I disagree with you, doesn’t mean I’m “trolling “ , it means I disagree.

The old "I'm not trolling I'm just disagreeing" gambit. One of the oldest and most obvious troll shticks in the book.

.......didn't you invent it?

[Northern Lights]

So their strategy was the right one except for the fact that it allowed all those people to die, okay good one.

Look: Sweden is a shitshow. They're right up there for deaths per capita, and they've still had a big economic hit, and still had to do some forms of lockdown. There is no way they can be considered a success, particularly when compared to other countries of that size and location. Sweden has an extraordinarily healthy population compared to a lot of western countries and should've been ideally placed to avoid a disaster. They failed, big time.

https://www.ft.com/content/4f6ad356-9f6 ... a1f232035a
https://www.businessinsider.com/sweden- ... ?r=US&IR=T
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/busi ... ticleShare
https://www.statista.com/statistics/110 ... habitants/

They gambled on herd immunity and lost.

Eh, no and like i predicted you would double down on this.

Old die, people need to get over this shite, we dont live forever. They had the best strategy for the long run but you will refuse to accept this.

Their economy took a hit due to its exposure to export markets because the rest of Europe all went into full lockdown, do you think this wouldnt have an impact on their economy, that is pretty special thinking if you do.

We’re vindicated, say Swedes after coronavirus cases hit new low
Oliver Moody, Berlin
Thursday September 10 2020, 12.01am, The Times
Europe
Swedes appear to be benefiting from widespread immunity, according to their director of the public health
Swedes appear to be benefiting from widespread immunity, according to their director of the public health
MARTIN VON KROGH/GETTY IMAGES
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Sweden has registered its lowest rate of positive coronavirus tests yet even after its testing regime was expanded to record levels in what one health official said was a vindication of its relatively non-intrusive Covid-19 strategy.

Over the past week the country carried out more than 120,000 tests, of which only 1.3 per cent identified the disease. At the height of the pandemic the proportion was 19 per cent.

Johan Carlson, an epidemiologist and director of the public health agency, said that Swedes seemed to be benefiting from widespread immunity because of the decision not to order the population to stay at home during the first wave.

“Our strategy was consistent and sustainable,” Professor Carlson said. “We probably have a lower risk of [the virus] spreading than other countries.”

In another striking illustration of the progress Sweden has made it is now recording fewer new cases per capita than Norway, which introduced one of Europe’s earliest lockdowns, for the first time since April.

In Denmark, another Nordic country that initially seemed to have curbed Covid-19 through the imposition of tight restrictions, the infection rate has also risen much higher than the rate in Sweden.

Denmark and Norway have also largely reopened their borders to Swedes, although some quarantine measures have been put back in place as coronavirus has flared up again in Norway.

At the start of the pandemic the authorities in Stockholm reasoned that the disease would be a long-term challenge and that it would be better to allow the population to develop immunity to it while trying to protect those most at risk.

The government advised people to work from home where they could but left most of the country open, including bars, restaurants and schools for all except the oldest pupils.

It also declined to recommend the use of masks in shops or on trains and buses, although it requires people to keep at least 1.5m apart in public.

In the early months many critics argued that this approach was recklessly laissez-faire.

Some scientists predicted that as many as 180,000 people could die in a country of 10.2 million.

Those estimates proved to be drastically overblown: up to now there have been 5,838 Covid-19 deaths. In per capita terms this is the fifth highest death rate in Europe, behind only Belgium, the UK, Spain and Italy, but it has also fallen substantially since the summer. Only seven people died with the disease in the past week.

The government has also invested many more resources in testing, which had previously been limited to healthcare workers, risk groups and patients with the gravest symptoms.

The country now carries out nearly three times as many tests each day as it did in early June. The guidelines vary between the different regions, with regular virus and antibody testing in hotspots such as Stockholm, the centre of the epidemic.

The country now offers coronavirus tests to anyone with apparent symptoms and has put in place a system to track down and test each infected patient’s contacts.

The marked decline in the proportion of tests that are positive may partly reflect this broader testing strategy. In Germany, where testing has been extended to people returning from risk zones abroad, the level is as low as 0.7 per cent.

The true extent of immunity remains difficult to gauge. Anders Tegnell, the state’s pugnacious chief epidemiologist, has claimed that up to 30 per cent of Swedes may by now have overcome the virus.

Yet a recent paper in the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine by two researchers based in the UK said that herd immunity — in which a clear majority of the population has some degree of resistance to the disease — was “nowhere in sight”.

[Northern Lights]

Well DUH so 10% of those with mild symptoms aren't fine?

The pasta is very much for erindors and emergencies. I'm maybe a bit cautious but I clearly remember what it was like being under 'house arrest' for months during the F&M epidemic (we still lost some of our animals) that kind of things leaves scars and being snowed in is just part of living in the sticks.

Ya think.

This was mostly measured for the remaining 10 percenters after 4 weeks, which like a lot other shit, it isnt cleared up after 4 weeks whether that is broken bones, the flu etc etc. The vast majority of infections give mild to no symptoms.

Hospital admissions still very low, could spike but I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

Your individual risk assessment affects me and everyone else though. An epidemic isn’t about personal freedom it’s about whole society impact, and I’m not going to let your personal interests decide if my mum stays healthy and alive.

If you genuinely think an epidemic should be approached via a lens of individual freedoms, you’re an inconsiderate shithole.

Keep your mum locked up then. You are the inconsiderate arsehole cratering the economy so your mum can live a few more years whilst impoverishing a generation

[Northern Lights]

My brother in law is due to get married in 10 days time.

His wife to be (6 months pregnant) and him have just returned from a holiday to France with 10 mates. They all decided to get a test the day after they got back and have all gone back to work etc with no quarantine. Her mother has just announced she is going to Turkey tomorrow and will have a test when she gets back so all will be OK.

Anyway, they were a bit upset last night at the new restrictions and he came out with a great line “these rules are not really for us anyway”. Just doesn’t get that they can pass it on it seems.

I pointed out that 2 guests were in their 80’s (one with cancer) two 75 (one had a stroke last year) and a couple of others in their 70’s - “the chances we have it are pretty small”

Just arseholes.

Ask them to share the Zoom link for their mass funeral in mid-October.

Bloody hell the echo chamber in here, you fuckers have lost it

[Bimbowomxn]

You get the Marshall job yet sandy?

Didn't realise they were advertising. Pay well?

If he can't do it from his sofa he's not interested

You tried to get your neighbours sacked yet ?

[Slick]

Didn't realise they were advertising. Pay well?

If he can't do it from his sofa he's not interested

You tried to get your neighbours sacked yet ?

Have you ever met yours?

[Slick]

My brother in law is due to get married in 10 days time.

His wife to be (6 months pregnant) and him have just returned from a holiday to France with 10 mates. They all decided to get a test the day after they got back and have all gone back to work etc with no quarantine. Her mother has just announced she is going to Turkey tomorrow and will have a test when she gets back so all will be OK.

Anyway, they were a bit upset last night at the new restrictions and he came out with a great line “these rules are not really for us anyway”. Just doesn’t get that they can pass it on it seems.

I pointed out that 2 guests were in their 80’s (one with cancer) two 75 (one had a stroke last year) and a couple of others in their 70’s - “the chances we have it are pretty small”

Just arseholes.

Ask them to share the Zoom link for their mass funeral in mid-October.

Bloody hell the echo chamber in here, you fuckers have lost it

You and Bimbo know best, we get it

[Bimbowomxn]

If he can't do it from his sofa he's not interested

You tried to get your neighbours sacked yet ?

Have you ever met yours?

As I said you know nothing, and genuinely think grassing to lose people their jobs is a good thing. I know who I’d rather be,

[Northern Lights]

Ask them to share the Zoom link for their mass funeral in mid-October.

Bloody hell the echo chamber in here, you fuckers have lost it

You and Bimbo know best, we get it

Ah you clearly do though

[Slick]

You tried to get your neighbours sacked yet ?

Have you ever met yours?

As I said you know nothing, and genuinely think grassing to lose people their jobs is a good thing. I know who I’d rather be,

You are genuinely insane. I’ve never said anything like that, you’ve made it up

Unless you are referring to an obvious joke? But that would be insane

[Slick]

Bloody hell the echo chamber in here, you fuckers have lost it

You and Bimbo know best, we get it

Ah you clearly do though

No, I don’t. That’s why I’m just following the advice of people that do

[Biffer]

Ya think.

This was mostly measured for the remaining 10 percenters after 4 weeks, which like a lot other shit, it isnt cleared up after 4 weeks whether that is broken bones, the flu etc etc. The vast majority of infections give mild to no symptoms.

Hospital admissions still very low, could spike but I would much prefer more individual freedom to assess the risk this virus poses.

Your individual risk assessment affects me and everyone else though. An epidemic isn’t about personal freedom it’s about whole society impact, and I’m not going to let your personal interests decide if my mum stays healthy and alive.

If you genuinely think an epidemic should be approached via a lens of individual freedoms, you’re an inconsiderate shithole.

Keep your mum locked up then. You are the inconsiderate arsehole cratering the economy so your mum can live a few more years whilst impoverishing a generation

Well, we know what type of person you are now.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Bimbowomxn]

Have you ever met yours?

As I said you know nothing, and genuinely think grassing to lose people their jobs is a good thing. I know who I’d rather be,

You are genuinely insane. I’ve never said anything like that, you’ve made it up

Unless you are referring to an obvious joke? But that would be insane

Sadly you spoke of “sobbing them in” and your fellow poster then suggested contacting their employers.

There’s little “obvious” about this considering your other posts on the issue.

I’ve made nothing up, you on the other hand have made plenty up about me .....

This will be the last post I make in reference to you or posts on this. We get it you’re really really really “good”.

[Northern Lights]

You and Bimbo know best, we get it

Ah you clearly do though

No, I don’t. That’s why I’m just following the advice of people that do

I'm following the guidelines but given the ones that are making them keep changing them, it is fair to say there is a good deal of skepticism that they do know. As the lockdown came in Leitch was defending his family attending a concert, he was/is the public health expert yet he wouldnt be advising the same now. I seriously question the long term thinking and struggle to see a coherent strategy from Westminster or Holyrood.

[Northern Lights]

Your individual risk assessment affects me and everyone else though. An epidemic isn’t about personal freedom it’s about whole society impact, and I’m not going to let your personal interests decide if my mum stays healthy and alive.

If you genuinely think an epidemic should be approached via a lens of individual freedoms, you’re an inconsiderate shithole.

Keep your mum locked up then. You are the inconsiderate arsehole cratering the economy so your mum can live a few more years whilst impoverishing a generation

Well, we know what type of person you are now.

Thanks for clarifying.

Likewise.

[Slick]

As I said you know nothing, and genuinely think grassing to lose people their jobs is a good thing. I know who I’d rather be,

You are genuinely insane. I’ve never said anything like that, you’ve made it up

Unless you are referring to an obvious joke? But that would be insane

Sadly you spoke of “sobbing them in” and your fellow poster then suggested contacting their employers.

There’s little “obvious” about this considering your other posts on the issue.

I’ve made nothing up, you on the other hand have made plenty up about me .....

This will be the last post I make in reference to you or posts on this. We get it you’re really really really “good”.

OK, off you go back to your humourless, colourless life.

[Biffer]

Keep your mum locked up then. You are the inconsiderate arsehole cratering the economy so your mum can live a few more years whilst impoverishing a generation

Well, we know what type of person you are now.

Thanks for clarifying.

Likewise.

Good.

That allows other people to have an opinion on either or both of us.

[Slick]

Ah you clearly do though

No, I don’t. That’s why I’m just following the advice of people that do

I'm following the guidelines but given the ones that are making them keep changing them, it is fair to say there is a good deal of skepticism that they do know. As the lockdown came in Leitch was defending his family attending a concert, he was/is the public health expert yet he wouldnt be advising the same now. I seriously question the long term thinking and struggle to see a coherent strategy from Westminster or Holyrood.

All fair, mate. Can’t expect them to get it right every time in an unprecedented situation I guess. I’m
frustrated to, I see no end to this at the moment

[Northern Lights]

No, I don’t. That’s why I’m just following the advice of people that do

I'm following the guidelines but given the ones that are making them keep changing them, it is fair to say there is a good deal of skepticism that they do know. As the lockdown came in Leitch was defending his family attending a concert, he was/is the public health expert yet he wouldnt be advising the same now. I seriously question the long term thinking and struggle to see a coherent strategy from Westminster or Holyrood.

All fair, mate. Can’t expect them to get it right every time in an unprecedented situation I guess. I’m
frustrated to, I see no end to this at the moment

Yep. Apologies if it was unnecessarily aggressive. I dont condone wilfully ignoring the guidlines and holding a 300 person rave but equally i understand the frustration of youngsters being locked down for months when they are at a small risk of getting seriously ill with this but yet expected to pick up the tab for the actions taken by governments across the world. I understand the concerns of the elderly more at risk group but that is where they have shown to be isolating themselves more even when things opened up as they understand the risks.

There are also far too much politics being played with this, England introduced 6 person rule yesterday which to me is just trying to steal a march on Sturgeon who copied them today, she has been doing the same to them earlier with travel bans etc and was widely praised at the time for showing leadership. It just sows confusion that the UK cant have a united response to this and each country has differing rules. Equally dont understand why Glasgow didnt get locked down harder like Aberdeen, if the virus is spreading it doesnt matter if its in pubs or at home, the 5 mile limit and stricter lockdown would probably have stamped down on transmission far faster, so again inconsistency. That aside I do question the long term viability of locking down and opening up on repeat as the spikes come as an effective way of dealing with this.

[ScarfaceClaw]

Keep your mum locked up then. You are the inconsiderate arsehole cratering the economy so your mum can live a few more years whilst impoverishing a generation

That’s a prick of a comment.

[Openside]

You know absolutely nothing about me ..... because I disagree with you, doesn’t mean I’m “trolling “ , it means I disagree.

The old "I'm not trolling I'm just disagreeing" gambit. One of the oldest and most obvious troll shticks in the book.

Farkin Hell AC lecturing on trolling I have seen it all now

[sockwithaticket]

I do question the long term viability of locking down and opening up on repeat as the spikes come as an effective way of dealing with this.

It's playing for time until a vaccine, surely? The hope is it won't even need to be a medium term option let alone a long term one.

[Openside]

Keep your mum locked up then. You are the inconsiderate arsehole cratering the economy so your mum can live a few more years whilst impoverishing a generation

That’s a prick of a comment.

It is uncharacteristically harsh for NL but essentially he is spot on. The economy is being trashed to essentially delay the deaths of a few thousand over 80's These people will be long gone when our kids are still paying for this. 100Bn on testing?? what a waste of money. Universities need to be allowed to get on with it, 99% of students are living with other students, let them all infect each other and they will be alright to send home at Christmas.

[Bimbowomxn]

Not one death reported in a Scotland from Covid today. 9 across the whole UK. There’s no second spike yet.

This is an awful policy for 9 deaths.

Cancer patients being forgotten.

Mental health suffering.

We cannot lock down for years waiting for a vaccine that currently isn’t able to be given.

[SaintK]

Keep your mum locked up then. You are the inconsiderate arsehole cratering the economy so your mum can live a few more years whilst impoverishing a generation

That’s a prick of a comment.

It is uncharacteristically harsh for NL but essentially he is spot on. The economy is being trashed to essentially delay the deaths of a few thousand over 80's These people will be long gone when our kids are still paying for this. 100Bn on testing?? what a waste of money. Universities need to be allowed to get on with it, 99% of students are living with other students, let them all infect each other and they will be alright to send home at Christmas.

Thanks Professor!

[Ali Cadoo]

The cure really shouldn't be worse than the disease, surely? It's obviously a shit state of affairs all round, but I find myself agreeing with Bimbo and OS on this one.

[I like neeps]

The cure really shouldn't be worse than the disease, surely? It's obviously a shit state of affairs all round, but I find myself agreeing with Bimbo and OS on this one.

We haven't really seen the disease as we've mostly had the cure.

Even Sweden which didn't lock down as strictly and has various socio economic factors that help mitigate problems nowhere has let covid rip through the population.

If you think back to the peak in northern Italy and UK if that had been allowed to go on unconstrained it would've been a lot worse.

I think LN makes good points, ultimately whatever strategy you pick the majority are likely unhappy.

[Bimbowomxn]

The cure really shouldn't be worse than the disease, surely? It's obviously a shit state of affairs all round, but I find myself agreeing with Bimbo and OS on this one.

We haven't really seen the disease as we've mostly had the cure.

Even Sweden which didn't lock down as strictly and has various socio economic factors that help mitigate problems nowhere has let covid rip through the population.

If you think back to the peak in northern Italy and UK if that had been allowed to go on unconstrained it would've been a lot worse.

I think LN makes good points, ultimately whatever strategy you pick the majority are likely unhappy.

Sweden had better covid results per capita than the UK. They posted a budget surplus in August I believe.

[Munch]

People seem to have forgotten that we went into lockdown to "flatten the curve". That means not preventing deaths, but making them occur over a longer period of time. This was all so the NHS could cope.

The current numbers compared to the spike are not even in the same league, so there is no chance of the NHS being overwhelmed. So I don't see the need for the lockdown.

[Biffer]

Keep your mum locked up then. You are the inconsiderate arsehole cratering the economy so your mum can live a few more years whilst impoverishing a generation

That’s a prick of a comment.

It is uncharacteristically harsh for NL but essentially he is spot on. The economy is being trashed to essentially delay the deaths of a few thousand over 80's These people will be long gone when our kids are still paying for this. 100Bn on testing?? what a waste of money. Universities need to be allowed to get on with it, 99% of students are living with other students, let them all infect each other and they will be alright to send home at Christmas.

Just putting some numbers up, it works out as below for the UK

Age. Population. Fatality rate. Number Dead
20s. 8,600,000. 0.03% 1,500
30s. 8,900,000. 0.08%. 4,260
40s. 8,400,000. 0.16%. 8,040
50s. 9,000,000. 0.6%. 32,400
60s. 7,100,000. 1.9%. 80,940
70s. 5,600,000. 4.3%. 144,480
80+ 3,300,000. 7.8%. 154,440

Assuming 60% get it which is where herd immunity would kick in for an R number of about 3.

Population figures from here

https://www.statista.com/statistics/281 ... on-by-age/

Infection fatality rates from here

https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPd ... %2930243-7

[Northern Lights]

I do question the long term viability of locking down and opening up on repeat as the spikes come as an effective way of dealing with this.

It's playing for time until a vaccine, surely? The hope is it won't even need to be a medium term option let alone a long term one.

Yes that clearly is the thinking but the vaccine is really of most use for the elderly, the vast majority of the young will experience mild symptoms with little chance of hospitalisation. Current government strategy doesn’t appear to take any of this into account, we are restricting the whole population while we wait for a vaccine.

[Bimbowomxn]

Stats produced by an infection fatality from the 30th of March don’t seem particularly useful.

[Sandstorm]

Damn, stop 7 people getting together and the claws really come out again.

[Enzedder]

[Un Pilier]

I do question the long term viability of locking down and opening up on repeat as the spikes come as an effective way of dealing with this.

It's playing for time until a vaccine, surely? The hope is it won't even need to be a medium term option let alone a long term one.

Yes that clearly is the thinking but the vaccine is really of most use for the elderly, the vast majority of the young will experience mild symptoms with little chance of hospitalisation. Current government strategy doesn’t appear to take any of this into account, we are restricting the whole population while we wait for a vaccine.

There is a fair bit of evidence of potentially long term damage to people of all ages and it’s fair to say we don’t really understand the extent or impact of this. If as appears from the trends we are on the tipping point of an exponential increase in infections it must make sense to throttle back a bit. It’s not either/or a full blown pandemic and overwhelmed NHS will surely fuck the economy as well as people’s lives. This discussion is so binary.

[I like neeps]

People seem to have forgotten that we went into lockdown to "flatten the curve". That means not preventing deaths, but making them occur over a longer period of time. This was all so the NHS could cope.

The current numbers compared to the spike are not even in the same league, so there is no chance of the NHS being overwhelmed. So I don't see the need for the lockdown.

Agree with this it's all about carefully monitoring. But the rule of 6 doesn't seem very Draconian and is really only about ending houseparties.

[Openside]

That’s a prick of a comment.

It is uncharacteristically harsh for NL but essentially he is spot on. The economy is being trashed to essentially delay the deaths of a few thousand over 80's These people will be long gone when our kids are still paying for this. 100Bn on testing?? what a waste of money. Universities need to be allowed to get on with it, 99% of students are living with other students, let them all infect each other and they will be alright to send home at Christmas.

Thanks Professor!

well that's helpful