UK Home energy prices

[tabascoboy]

The electric cooker oven is the big culprit for me, as a single person heating single servings the usage really shoots up when it's on - and even more so with a hob on at the same time. In summer just use it as little as possible and the saving is very noticeable. Have looked into other options like a combi microwave or air fryer, but the more I check things out just makes me more confused about what I want/need

Combi micro heats up when used as a fan oven quicker than your cooker, so that's a win. Can't say much about the air fryer fad as it's a compact fan oven at the end of the day, same as a combi microwave..
Get a gas BBQ with rotisserie, use mine 4 or 5 times a week..

Well yes, much more efficient for warming up a pie and things like that but reviews of the models I looked at weren't all that positive. Guess like most things it comes down to budget and how much you are willing to spend.

Same goes with my fridge/freezer which is 20+ years old now and probably less energy efficient than new ones, but build quality just isn't the same as it used to be

[TB63]

20 yr old fridge!

Shockingly inefficient tbh..

I've a built in oven and combi above, swapping them out now for stand alone cooker as I need double, and frequently triple ovens. So going for countertop combi and double oven cooker, putting new fridge in where oven used to be as the olduns can't bend to undercounter fridge very well now..

Found half decent, dual fuel cooker with 2 fan ovens, 1 with steam and gas hob with wok ring.. Limited space in kitchen so hands are tied for choices.

[Raggs]

20 yr old fridge!

Shockingly inefficient tbh..

I've a built in oven and combi above, swapping them out now for stand alone cooker as I need double, and frequently triple ovens. So going for countertop combi and double oven cooker, putting new fridge in where oven used to be as the olduns can't bend to undercounter fridge very well now..

Found half decent, dual fuel cooker with 2 fan ovens, 1 with steam and gas hob with wok ring.. Limited space in kitchen so hands are tied for choices.

When looking at 4 door fridge freezers, I found one that had 1 level higher efficiency, AO give estimates of how much money you save over the lowest grade. Worked out that despite being about £200 more expensive to buy, I'll have probably saved that money within 2 years, given the price increases (which I believe happened after we bought), it'll probably be sooner than that. Would imagine you could save enough to offset the whole purchase in terms of efficiency over something that old.

[Blackmac]

The electric cooker oven is the big culprit for me, as a single person heating single servings the usage really shoots up when it's on - and even more so with a hob on at the same time. In summer just use it as little as possible and the saving is very noticeable. Have looked into other options like a combi microwave or air fryer, but the more I check things out just makes me more confused about what I want/need

We have 47 lights in our kitchen and my wife insists on keeping them on all the time because she likes the bloody ambiance they give. Even during the hot weather when she is out in the garden all day the lights will be on. When we went on holiday last week, leaving my daughter in the house, our daily electricity bill dropped from roughly £3.60 a day to £1.70. Her attitude is that we can afford £1.90 a day for her to be happy but to be honest I would rather have the £650 per year.

[tabascoboy]

The electric cooker oven is the big culprit for me, as a single person heating single servings the usage really shoots up when it's on - and even more so with a hob on at the same time. In summer just use it as little as possible and the saving is very noticeable. Have looked into other options like a combi microwave or air fryer, but the more I check things out just makes me more confused about what I want/need

We have 47 lights in our kitchen and my wife insists on keeping them on all the time because she likes the bloody ambiance they give. Even during the hot weather when she is out in the garden all day the lights will be on. When we went on holiday last week, leaving my daughter in the house, our daily electricity bill dropped from roughly £3.60 a day to £1.70. Her attitude is that we can afford £1.90 a day for her to be happy but to be honest I would rather have the £650 per year.

Jesus, at least I can console myself the ancient fridge/freezer is doing something useful , and daily cost in summer is around £1.80 so not that excessive.

[Grandpa]

Just had the new annual estimate for the gas supply tariff:

Previous tariff cost: £882
New tariff cost: £672

Based on same usage of course which I reduced compared to the previous 12 months when prices were lower. Quite a saving nonetheless

Unit rate = 7.538p per kWh
Standing charge = 29.106p per day

Surely you jest? They must be monthly figures?

[Insane_Homer]

British Gas has reported its highest ever first-half profits, of almost £1bn, after the energy watchdog let it claw back more money from household bills. The UK's biggest energy supplier reported profits of £969m for the first six months of 2023, up nearly 900% from £98m in the same period last year.

[Biffer]

The electric cooker oven is the big culprit for me, as a single person heating single servings the usage really shoots up when it's on - and even more so with a hob on at the same time. In summer just use it as little as possible and the saving is very noticeable. Have looked into other options like a combi microwave or air fryer, but the more I check things out just makes me more confused about what I want/need

Combi micro heats up when used as a fan oven quicker than your cooker, so that's a win. Can't say much about the air fryer fad as it's a compact fan oven at the end of the day, same as a combi microwave..
Get a gas BBQ with rotisserie, use mine 4 or 5 times a week..

Well yes, much more efficient for warming up a pie and things like that but reviews of the models I looked at weren't all that positive. Guess like most things it comes down to budget and how much you are willing to spend.

Same goes with my fridge/freezer which is 20+ years old now and probably less energy efficient than new ones, but build quality just isn't the same as it used to be

I changed my fridge freezer a couple of years ago (also had one about 20 years old!). Instantly noticeable on my electricity usage, think it saved me £3 or £4 a week. New electric oven had a similar but smaller effect.

[Grandpa]

British Gas has reported its highest ever first-half profits, of almost £1bn, after the energy watchdog let it claw back more money from household bills. The UK's biggest energy supplier reported profits of £969m for the first six months of 2023, up nearly 900% from £98m in the same period last year.

So why is this allowed to happen?

[Insane_Homer]

British Gas has reported its highest ever first-half profits, of almost £1bn, after the energy watchdog let it claw back more money from household bills. The UK's biggest energy supplier reported profits of £969m for the first six months of 2023, up nearly 900% from £98m in the same period last year.

So why is this allowed to happen?

See "don't fucking vote for Tories" thread

[Grandpa]

So why is this allowed to happen?

See "don't fucking vote for Tories" thread

[Hal Jordan]

Meanwhile Labour bang the "There's no money" drum as an excuse for backpedalling on an energy policy based in the 21st century as opposed to the 20th, and why they can't afford to do anything differently from the Tories.

The money is right there, and it was ours, so just get it back.

[petej]

Meanwhile Labour bang the "There's no money" drum as an excuse for backpedalling on an energy policy based in the 21st century as opposed to the 20th, and why they can't afford to do anything differently from the Tories.

The money is right there, and it was ours, so just get it back.

All I can say is that if you have the money and space do things to limit these fossil fuel pricks. Insulate your house, get your solar panels and batteries etc....

[Hal Jordan]

Meanwhile Labour bang the "There's no money" drum as an excuse for backpedalling on an energy policy based in the 21st century as opposed to the 20th, and why they can't afford to do anything differently from the Tories.

The money is right there, and it was ours, so just get it back.

All I can say is that if you have the money and space do things to limit these fossil fuel pricks. Insulate your house, get your solar panels and batteries etc....

Done all that, even on today's cloudy day the panels are powering the house and have charged the batteries to 45% capacity.

[weegie01]

We have a pellet boiler which we put in to take advantage of RHI scheme. Our oil boiler needed replacing anyway, so at the time it was a no brainer.

We have done well financially out of the scheme. I have kept a spreadsheet, and even including the huge cost of installing a biomass system, we are circa £20K up on where we would have been running oil.

The downside has been that the boiler has been unreliable. It transpires that pretty much everything that could have been done wrong in the installation was, and as a result the boiler was not only unreliable, it has worn out much faster than it should have.

We have have an estimate of £26k to put in a new biomass boiler, and do all the stuff that should have been right in the first place. Even if everything had been done right we'd be looking at £14k. This has been an interesting experience. It turns out that most of the people who jumped on the biomass band wagon jumped off long ago. There is no one anywhere near us who maintains / installs them now. Those that are left coming from distance are the few who actually do know what they are doing, and they are so busy we could only get the chap who currently looks after the boiler to quote. He could not do the work for at least three months.

So we are going back to oil. We have an oil Aga so the oil infrastructure is still in place. Taking out the biomass and putting in an oil CH boiler will be £7.5k, and with no RHI the annual running costs will be similar. We know of several other people doing this. I recently spoke to a chap who consults on commercial biomass whose opinion was that domestic installations would be daft not to go back to oil when their boilers need replaced, and the only reason that is not the case commercially is the longer RHI period.

The RHI scheme had a lot of people rush into biomass, make money, then bugger off. Many of these are now doing ground / air source. Recipients of the scheme like us did very well out of it financially, but many are walking away. So what did it actually achieve? At best a short term blip, but even then with pellets being sourced from the US and Russia with a lot of virgin forest being cut down to provide them, you have to wonder if there was any.

I look at the current rush to ground / air source heat pumps and confiently expect something similar to haappen. One of my sisters put one in years ago, and a neighbour did in their new build some 10 years ago. Both have had to put in back up oil, and these were new builds at the time. Much or our housing stock is unsuitable for retro fitting, and we have the same rush of 'entrepreneurs' into the market who will exploit it, make a fast buck, make a mess and leave.

It's a mess.

[petej]

One of the things with air source heat pumps and the like is that as you seal up your house to make them more efficient you need ventilation to stop the air in the house being terribly stale then ideally you want that to be able to extract the heat from the stale air before venting it.

Edit: it needs to be well thought out. We are a nation of bodgers and piss poor quick fixes.

[TB63]

Heat recovery units have been around for years mate..

Was fitting them 20byears ago...

[petej]

Heat recovery units have been around for years mate..

Was fitting them 20byears ago...

Heat recovery units have been around for years mate..

Was fitting them 20byears ago...

I know they are around but go to the bog standard companies flogging and installing heat pumps in the UK and it isn't joined up at all that you should be looking at heat pump, ventilation and heat recovery.

[fishfoodie]

It sounds very familiar.

I completely agree that there are too many cowboys who lurch from Subsidised program to Subsidised program, leaving behind a trail is dissatisfied customers, who blame the technology, & not the dog shit installation.

One problem is that a proper program to retrofit houses requires a lot of hard work to prepare, & then ongoing diligence to stop becoming an expensive money pit; & you haven't had the caliber of Politician to pull that off in decades.

A proper program has assessments, & surveys, & then maybe 5-10 tiers of installations which range from just insulation, to improving airtightness, insulation, HRV, Heat pump, Solar,etc etc & then if the homeowner chips in more money, or gets a larger low interest loan, the Government chips in more money too. That way the risk is shared, & you up sell the homeowner of doing more.

None of it is possible also if you don't run training for surveyors, apprentices, technicians & Engineers & give them faith that if they get qualified, they'll actually earn enough from the program & related work, to make it worth their time, & the Exchequer won't just pull the money after a couple of years, & leave them all with debt, & bugger all work.

It's also worth saying that if companies also have faith in program, then they'll invest & start producing materials in the UK, & the whole economy benefits.

None of this is terribly sexy though; hard work rarely is.

[Tichtheid]

Ideally we'll get to electric central heating systems which are supplied by renewable sources at a price per kWh that is affordable

[Sandstorm]

Ideally we'll get to electric central heating systems which are supplied by renewable sources at a price per kWh that is affordable

Electric central heating is shit. But not as shit as heat pumps. Unless you want a cold house every winter, stick with a gas boiler. And send money to a polar bear charity.

[Tichtheid]

Ideally we'll get to electric central heating systems which are supplied by renewable sources at a price per kWh that is affordable

Electric central heating is shit.

At the moment it is yeah, that is what I'm saying in that the ideal is that we get to the point that it is a viable alternative to gas.

Electric heaters are 100% efficient, all the energy supplied is turned into heat, that is not the case with any other source. The only thing that stops you being able to turn a house in the Highlands of Scotland in winter into tropical type temps indoors via electric heating is cost.

So to reiterate my point, getting that cost per unit down and supplied by renewables is the goal

[fishfoodie]

Ideally we'll get to electric central heating systems which are supplied by renewable sources at a price per kWh that is affordable

Electric central heating is shit. But not as shit as heat pumps. Unless you want a cold house every winter, stick with a gas boiler. And send money to a polar bear charity.

Heat pumps aren't shit; the problem is that there's a dozen things you need to do before you even get to the stage of installing one & being comfortably warm, & no one is bothered to explain this to people. The heat pump is unique in that due to the joys of thermodynamics, it actually has an efficiency > 1, it's why engineers wet themselves over them.

It's much easier to tell people to just replace their Oil/Gas boiler with a heat pump & they'll be warm, happy & smug .... & then reality hits !

It's relatively easy to convince someone to spend 5k to replace their old boiler, but it's not so easy to tell them that they need to spend 40k to not kick themselves later.

[Sandstorm]

Ideally we'll get to electric central heating systems which are supplied by renewable sources at a price per kWh that is affordable

Electric central heating is shit. But not as shit as heat pumps. Unless you want a cold house every winter, stick with a gas boiler. And send money to a polar bear charity.

Heat pumps aren't shit; the problem is that there's a dozen things you need to do before you even get to the stage of installing one & being comfortably warm, & no one is bothered to explain this to people. The heat pump is unique in that due to the joys of thermodynamics, it actually has an efficiency > 1, it's why engineers wet themselves over them.

It's much easier to tell people to just replace their Oil/Gas boiler with a heat pump & they'll be warm, happy & smug .... & then reality hits !

It's relatively easy to convince someone to spend 5k to replace their old boiler, but it's not so easy to tell them that they need to spend 40k to not kick themselves later.

If it costs 45k to have an effective heat pump installation, then they’re shit.

[Tichtheid]

Ideally we'll get to electric central heating systems which are supplied by renewable sources at a price per kWh that is affordable

Electric central heating is shit. But not as shit as heat pumps. Unless you want a cold house every winter, stick with a gas boiler. And send money to a polar bear charity.

Heat pumps aren't shit; the problem is that there's a dozen things you need to do before you even get to the stage of installing one & being comfortably warm, & no one is bothered to explain this to people. The heat pump is unique in that due to the joys of thermodynamics, it actually has an efficiency > 1, it's why engineers wet themselves over them.

It's much easier to tell people to just replace their Oil/Gas boiler with a heat pump & they'll be warm, happy & smug .... & then reality hits !

It's relatively easy to convince someone to spend 5k to replace their old boiler, but it's not so easy to tell them that they need to spend 40k to not kick themselves later.

I've only had a cursory look at heat pumps, I stopped at square one when I read that my house wasn't compatible, and neither is the house that we're moving into in a few months time, plus the latest I heard on the Today programme was there there are noise abatement orders being served on householders with this set up and it's expensive (the cost of a new gas boiler) to rehouse the heat pump in a sound proof box

[fishfoodie]

Electric central heating is shit. But not as shit as heat pumps. Unless you want a cold house every winter, stick with a gas boiler. And send money to a polar bear charity.

Heat pumps aren't shit; the problem is that there's a dozen things you need to do before you even get to the stage of installing one & being comfortably warm, & no one is bothered to explain this to people. The heat pump is unique in that due to the joys of thermodynamics, it actually has an efficiency > 1, it's why engineers wet themselves over them.

It's much easier to tell people to just replace their Oil/Gas boiler with a heat pump & they'll be warm, happy & smug .... & then reality hits !

It's relatively easy to convince someone to spend 5k to replace their old boiler, but it's not so easy to tell them that they need to spend 40k to not kick themselves later.

If it costs 45k to have an effective heat pump installation, then they’re shit.

The numbers are obviously plucked from fresh air, because when you look at the entire housing stock, how much it would cost to make a house airtight is a movable feast.

The problem isn't the technology, it's the spivs selling people tech that isn't economical for their house.

It all comes down to the economics, as ever. There are huge numbers of houses where doing remedial works, & then fitting a heat pump will be an excellent solution, with a reasonable payback period.

The problem is, as I stated above, that a program needs surveys to determine what's possible, & what's economic before any work starts, & I'll bet that in 99% of cases this doesn't happen. One bloke with an IR camera taking photos of where the heat is leaking from you house, can tell you if you are best off replacing your door, & putting in extra insulation, or ripping out a 5 year old oil boiler.

[dpedin]

Looks like prices are going up again in January and the standing charges are being increased ... again. I see that OFGEM are seeking input on a review into standing charges - about feckin time - these are essentially a charge on the poor and those struggling to survive! The increases in gas and electric being banded about might not seem too big but remember the Gov redefined average costs user given use has has gone down as prices have risen plus there is less financial help available for the poor, disabled etc as there was in previous years. This is going to make it a very difficult start to 2024 for those struggling with cost of living, pensioners reliant solely on their state pension, etc. Sunak and his Toriyhowever probably won't notice the difference in his bills when heating up their 2nd homes, indoor swimming pool, stables, etc ?

[C69]

Looks like prices are going up again in January and the standing charges are being increased ... again. I see that OFGEM are seeking input on a review into standing charges - about feckin time - these are essentially a charge on the poor and those struggling to survive! The increases in gas and electric being banded about might not seem too big but remember the Gov redefined average costs user given use has has gone down as prices have risen plus there is less financial help available for the poor, disabled etc as there was in previous years. This is going to make it a very difficult start to 2024 for those struggling with cost of living, pensioners reliant solely on their state pension, etc. Sunak and his Toriyhowever probably won't notice the difference in his bills when heating up their 2nd homes, indoor swimming pool, stables, etc ?

So basically the gains from NI deductions today will be going to the Energy companies

[lemonhead]

Bit torn over the minimum wage rise.

All for it in principle but as a small business with a heavy reliance on staff we just gave people the biggest pay rise we could afford and will be under pressure to do again midway through next year.

Ridden our luck with energy, equipment and materials costs. shopped around, made our own repairs, saved wherever possible and kept our own prices in check (and sometimes withheld our own salary in rough months). But with such a high wage bill we've no choice but to just whack 10-15% on everything we sell, which in turn alienates or loses certain customers.

Can't imagine other businesses won't be forced to do the same as there's feck all else in the Autumn statement. God knows what happens the year after.

[Biffer]

The electric cooker oven is the big culprit for me, as a single person heating single servings the usage really shoots up when it's on - and even more so with a hob on at the same time. In summer just use it as little as possible and the saving is very noticeable. Have looked into other options like a combi microwave or air fryer, but the more I check things out just makes me more confused about what I want/need

Combi micro heats up when used as a fan oven quicker than your cooker, so that's a win. Can't say much about the air fryer fad as it's a compact fan oven at the end of the day, same as a combi microwave..
Get a gas BBQ with rotisserie, use mine 4 or 5 times a week..

Well yes, much more efficient for warming up a pie and things like that but reviews of the models I looked at weren't all that positive. Guess like most things it comes down to budget and how much you are willing to spend.

Same goes with my fridge/freezer which is 20+ years old now and probably less energy efficient than new ones, but build quality just isn't the same as it used to be

I changed my fridge freezer about eighteen months ago, replaced the twenty year old one. I'm saving about a tenner a month

[tabascoboy]

Combi micro heats up when used as a fan oven quicker than your cooker, so that's a win. Can't say much about the air fryer fad as it's a compact fan oven at the end of the day, same as a combi microwave..
Get a gas BBQ with rotisserie, use mine 4 or 5 times a week..

Well yes, much more efficient for warming up a pie and things like that but reviews of the models I looked at weren't all that positive. Guess like most things it comes down to budget and how much you are willing to spend.

Same goes with my fridge/freezer which is 20+ years old now and probably less energy efficient than new ones, but build quality just isn't the same as it used to be

I changed my fridge freezer about eighteen months ago, replaced the twenty year old one. I'm saving about a tenner a month

Still looking for something the right size for the space and compartment split...at this rate I'll end up have one custom made

[C69]

I've got a commercial microwave and a large air Fryer and must say we don't use the gas oven very much at all now.
The commercial microwave is great when you get to know how to use it properly and the Air Fryer is a God send.

The biggest expense on energy is my Teenage daughter but I can't do much about that lol

[dpedin]

Looks like prices are going up again in January and the standing charges are being increased ... again. I see that OFGEM are seeking input on a review into standing charges - about feckin time - these are essentially a charge on the poor and those struggling to survive! The increases in gas and electric being banded about might not seem too big but remember the Gov redefined average costs user given use has has gone down as prices have risen plus there is less financial help available for the poor, disabled etc as there was in previous years. This is going to make it a very difficult start to 2024 for those struggling with cost of living, pensioners reliant solely on their state pension, etc. Sunak and his Toriyhowever probably won't notice the difference in his bills when heating up their 2nd homes, indoor swimming pool, stables, etc ?

So basically the gains from NI deductions today will be going to the Energy companies

Essentially yes - this is all about the transfer of wealth. It is a just a hidden Gov subsidy to their rich buddies in oil and gas sector but via the unsuspecting Joe public who think the tories actually give a fuck about them.

[TB63]

Earlier on I said that all new builds should have solar PV fitted as standard..

I'm involved in the planning of a new 200 property site and as part of the application, we proposed PV on every house.

Not allowed! The reason, power supplier has stated that it would breach capacity of local infrastructure. Ie. On a sunny day, the power generated would overload their transformer. Digging a bit deeper and talking to other building firms, this is an ongoing problem. The investment needed in upgrading the power systems is going to the shareholders first..

[Sandstorm]

Earlier on I said that all new builds should have solar PV fitted as standard..

I'm involved in the planning of a new 200 property site and as part of the application, we proposed PV on every house.

Not allowed! The reason, power supplier has stated that it would breach capacity of local infrastructure. Ie. On a sunny day, the power generated would overload their transformer. Digging a bit deeper and talking to other building firms, this is an ongoing problem. The investment needed in upgrading the power systems is going to the shareholders first..

Word. This grinds my gears every time I see a brand new housing development with nothing on the roofs.

[Raggs]

Earlier on I said that all new builds should have solar PV fitted as standard..

I'm involved in the planning of a new 200 property site and as part of the application, we proposed PV on every house.

Not allowed! The reason, power supplier has stated that it would breach capacity of local infrastructure. Ie. On a sunny day, the power generated would overload their transformer. Digging a bit deeper and talking to other building firms, this is an ongoing problem. The investment needed in upgrading the power systems is going to the shareholders first..

Daft thing is, each and every one of those buildings could choose to put solar panels on their roof, as long as the output going to the grid was limited to 3.6KW, and there's nothing the power company could do about it. You only need permission for larger outputs.

On top of that, if you have a larger array, you can limit your output to 3.6kwh, but still use more of that power if you can use the surplus (be it powering your home, charging an electric vehicle, or charging batteries). You could generate 6KW, export 3.6, and use 2.4 yourself.

[TB63]

Friend of mine has a medium size farm, 3 large barns and eco friendly campsite, she wants to cover the barns in solar to offset campsite. Nope, 3.6Kw only as her installation would overload the local transformer.. Next to her farm is a mahoosive solar farm!..

Looked down the off grid lane, the battery bank costs were eye watering so not a viable option..

[Sandstorm]

Friend of mine has a medium size farm, 3 large barns and eco friendly campsite, she wants to cover the barns in solar to offset campsite. Nope, 3.6Kw only as her installation would overload the local transformer.. Next to her farm is a mahoosive solar farm!..

She should ring the Daily Mail......there's definitely some dodgy power dealings happening in her borough.

[Raggs]

Friend of mine has a medium size farm, 3 large barns and eco friendly campsite, she wants to cover the barns in solar to offset campsite. Nope, 3.6Kw only as her installation would overload the local transformer.. Next to her farm is a mahoosive solar farm!..

Looked down the off grid lane, the battery bank costs were eye watering so not a viable option..

I'm having 5.7KW fitted, with a 10kwh battery. Output will be limited to 3.6kw to the grid, but we have an electric car, and the charger we have can also be set to use excess charge, so anything not used for export or batteries, can be sent to the car.

Considering the price of individual panels etc, and the relatively minor increase in cost for an inverter that can support a higher amount, it seems daft not to just pack as many as possible on the roof. We also have an east/west roof, so are splitting it half and half. Not ideal, but hopefully a smaller amount throughout the day, will be more realistic towards our electricity use too, rather than smashing it all in one half of the day.

[Hal Jordan]

Didn't do too badly today, as of now with the sun nearly down everything electrical in the house is currently being powered by the battery, which has 37% charge left.