The Official Scottish Rugby Thread

[topofthemoon]

Actually mean to say, it was a bit odd at the end in the stadium. You couldn’t really pick out what was being shown on the big screen so lots of pantomime ooo’ing and ahh’ing but no one seemed to really know what was going on.

After the whistle there was just a resigned sign, no real anger or frustration. Then as we walked up the road it started to spread that we were robbed

The screens in the ground are so crap! Decent giant screens in use and I think Berry would have got more involved in that process and there would have been more chance of the decision being overturned.

[Slick]

Actually mean to say, it was a bit odd at the end in the stadium. You couldn’t really pick out what was being shown on the big screen so lots of pantomime ooo’ing and ahh’ing but no one seemed to really know what was going on.

After the whistle there was just a resigned sign, no real anger or frustration. Then as we walked up the road it started to spread that we were robbed

The screens in the ground are so crap! Decent giant screens in use and I think Berry would have got more involved in that process and there would have been more chance of the decision being overturned.

Exactly what I was thinking. If he’d had a decent monitor to go and look at it might have been different

[Tattie]

Actually mean to say, it was a bit odd at the end in the stadium. You couldn’t really pick out what was being shown on the big screen so lots of pantomime ooo’ing and ahh’ing but no one seemed to really know what was going on.

After the whistle there was just a resigned sign, no real anger or frustration. Then as we walked up the road it started to spread that we were robbed

The screens in the ground are so crap! Decent giant screens in use and I think Berry would have got more involved in that process and there would have been more chance of the decision being overturned.

Exactly what I was thinking. If he’d had a decent monitor to go and look at it might have been different

Why can’t there be an off-field monitor like VAR in football? The ref can then go and watch quality footage up close in situations like this.

[Slick]

Just watched the last 5 minutes. FFS, now I’m annoyed

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Actually mean to say, it was a bit odd at the end in the stadium. You couldn’t really pick out what was being shown on the big screen so lots of pantomime ooo’ing and ahh’ing but no one seemed to really know what was going on.

After the whistle there was just a resigned sign, no real anger or frustration. Then as we walked up the road it started to spread that we were robbed

The screens in the ground are so crap! Decent giant screens in use and I think Berry would have got more involved in that process and there would have been more chance of the decision being overturned.

Exactly what I was thinking. If he’d had a decent monitor to go and look at it might have been different

I reckon not, The ref and the TMO both bottled it.

The TMO showed the grounding including saying 'and there is the ball on the ground' trying to get Berry to make a decision and the ref just put the decision back on the TMO.

[Tichtheid]

Just watched the last 5 minutes. FFS, now I’m annoyed

I just got there

Fucking outrageous

[Slick]

Three more years of Townsend. A damp squid RWC then this. I think he has hit his ceiling and his deficiencies as a coach are being hidden by decent players who are performing above some previous generations despite rather than because of his coaching.

I can't see how we move forward with him after all this time.

Whilst I don’t really agree with any of this, I was kind of hoping that after all these years we might not still be the only team in the world that can’t catch a kick off and hoof it up the other end of the pitch after scoring, without fucking up and giving the other team easy points.

[Big D]

Three more years of Townsend. A damp squid RWC then this. I think he has hit his ceiling and his deficiencies as a coach are being hidden by decent players who are performing above some previous generations despite rather than because of his coaching.

I can't see how we move forward with him after all this time.

Whilst I don’t really agree with any of this, I was kind of hoping that after all these years we might not still be the only team in the world that can’t catch a kick off and hoof it up the other end of the pitch after scoring, without fucking up and giving the other team easy points.

It was a terrible carry from MFagerson that set all that off. Really weak.

The difference with Dempsey returning KOs in the second half was stark.

[Tichtheid]

I really don't get the idea that we played to hold them off, rather than going out there to try to win. Both sides kicked as much as each other, there was one piece of great play from the French winger in a very tight second half that resulted in a try, plus there was one very tight decision at the end that decided the result.

I also don't get the criticism of Townsend - the tactic of White keeping Wales at bay last week saw us totally dominate them until, well, you know. There was no real difference in tactics today as far as I could see, it served us well enough until we didn't get that last score to win the game

[Tichtheid]

Three more years of Townsend. A damp squid RWC then this. I think he has hit his ceiling and his deficiencies as a coach are being hidden by decent players who are performing above some previous generations despite rather than because of his coaching.

I can't see how we move forward with him after all this time.

Whilst I don’t really agree with any of this, I was kind of hoping that after all these years we might not still be the only team in the world that can’t catch a kick off and hoof it up the other end of the pitch after scoring, without fucking up and giving the other team easy points.

It was a terrible carry from MFagerson that set all that off. Really weak.

The difference with Dempsey returning KOs in the second half was stark.

On the plus side I thought that Darge was excellent. He and Dempsey must start against England. Crosbie is going to be a miss again, but I hope either Christie or Ritchie gets the nod.

[Yr Alban]

Well, I’m depressed. Not exactly because we lost. More because that’s another 6N blown for this group of players, and it wasn’t even their fault. Hogg retired never having won a 6N. Now it looks like the same will happen to Russell. Realistically, we weren’t going to beat Ireland, but I wanted to at least be in the mix on the last day.

[charltom]

I haven’t seen it mentioned: how good was Russell's late steal that led to the should've-been-try at the end?

He is playing really very well

[Big D]

I haven’t seen it mentioned: how good was Russell's late steal that led to the should've-been-try at the end?

He is playing really very well

He might have been a wee but offside.

He's playing well. Kicking beautifully but perhaps a little hamstrung by gameplan?

Kicked a little too much when he dropped back. Not sure if they were nervous about Paterson whereas Kinghorn might have run more?

[Big D]

Whilst I don’t really agree with any of this, I was kind of hoping that after all these years we might not still be the only team in the world that can’t catch a kick off and hoof it up the other end of the pitch after scoring, without fucking up and giving the other team easy points.

It was a terrible carry from MFagerson that set all that off. Really weak.

The difference with Dempsey returning KOs in the second half was stark.

On the plus side I thought that Darge was excellent. He and Dempsey must start against England. Crosbie is going to be a miss again, but I hope either Christie or Ritchie gets the nod.

I'd go Christie.

[Tichtheid]

Another positive in the gloom, I thought Schooooooo was brilliant all game. He was up against a traction engine, who was then supported later in the scrum by a small shipping tanker, but he never took a step back in the tight, in fact he dominated, and he carried really effectively.

[Jock42]

Well done Paterson.

WTF is thar call all about. The TMO said its on the ground.

[Yr Alban]

Got home, watched the game back, and I honestly cannot believe we lost. We looked the better side from start to finish. No daft errors today. Discipline good, lineout good, ball retention good, good under the high ball (fantastic debut from Patterson), defence good, attack good. We didn’t have a period where we went to sleep as we usually do. The only thing that wasn’t good was that we didn’t take enough of our chances. If we had then it wouldn’t have been close. France, on the other hand, had few chances but made the most of them. Their second try was a moment of genius, but the scoring pass was clearly forward.

And then there was the ending. I was annoyed before and I’m raging now. The TMO clearly says he can see the ball grounded. The ref is about to change his decision, and then suddenly the TMO bottles it and changes his mind. He was wrong - that’s all there is to it. The angle they kept replaying shows the ball on the boot, then it moves backwards, and you see it touch the ground. You even see it rebound slightly afterwards, for fuck’s sake. It’s clearly grounded. But no, the TMO shafts us, and another 6N campaign goes in the bin.

There were positives. I’ve already mentioned Patterson. Russell also had a great game, as did Darge and White - in fact I wouldn’t say anyone played poorly. We should all be celebrating a famous win tonight, and I feel cheated.

[Blackmac]

I see Paddy Power are refunding all bets on Scotland. I know it's a gimmick but it sums up everyone's feelings. I hope the officiating team are sitting mortified with themselves.

[Blackmac]

Got home, watched the game back, and I honestly cannot believe we lost. We looked the better side from start to finish. No daft errors today. Discipline good, lineout good, ball retention good, good under the high ball (fantastic debut from Patterson), defence good, attack good. We didn’t have a period where we went to sleep as we usually do. The only thing that wasn’t good was that we didn’t take enough of our chances. If we had then it wouldn’t have been close. France, on the other hand, had few chances but made the most of them. Their second try was a moment of genius, but the scoring pass was clearly forward.

And then there was the ending. I was annoyed before and I’m raging now. The TMO clearly says he can see the ball grounded. The ref is about to change his decision, and then suddenly the TMO bottles it and changes his mind. He was wrong - that’s all there is to it. The angle they kept replaying shows the ball on the boot, then it moves backwards, and you see it touch the ground. You even see it rebound slightly afterwards, for fuck’s sake. It’s clearly grounded. But no, the TMO shafts us, and another 6N campaign goes in the bin.

There were positives. I’ve already mentioned Patterson. Russell also had a great game, as did Darge and White - in fact I wouldn’t say anyone played poorly. We should all be celebrating a famous win tonight, and I feel cheated.

The obvious question is why wouldn't it touch the ground. There is no French hand or foot in the way to prevent it. It defies belief that some incompetent Irish prick would think there was.

[topofthemoon]

Monitor and the ref being properly involved in the TMO's decision-making process would be good but the concern would be how much it would slow the game if he's going over to consult on every decision.

Clearer communication might help. For example, Berry just says "I've got the ball held up", he gives no real information to the TMO as to what exactly it is he has seen on field. If he tells the TMO "I've got the ball held up, on top of the yellow boot of a French player" then when the TMO sees that that is not in fact the final position the ball ends up in there's a chance for there to be a dialogue with the referee about what the implications for this are.

[topofthemoon]

We've had so many issues with France in the past where we have overplayed in our own half and their defence has just eaten it up. They're desperate to get a turnover in decent field position and attack from there. When they did get in our half they looked dangerous but we severely restricted their opportunities by taking them on at their kicking deep game.

There were more than enough scoring opportunities created by Scotland to win, just didn't take enough of them.

[topofthemoon]

Bielle-Biarrey was the only Frenchman in about a 50m width of Murrayfield on that last pgase of play there. Tuipulotu, Redpath and Rowe all out the back for Scotland.

[Yr Alban]

We've had so many issues with France in the past where we have overplayed in our own half and their defence has just eaten it up. They're desperate to get a turnover in decent field position and attack from there. When they did get in our half they looked dangerous but we severely restricted their opportunities by taking them on at their kicking deep game.

There were more than enough scoring opportunities created by Scotland to win, just didn't take enough of them.

That’s just it. Our tactics were right. They didn’t create much. Scotland left points out there. That, and the TMO, screwed us.

[Yr Alban]

I’ve got a really annoying Irish friend who agrees that the ball is down (as does everyone) but continues to argue that the TMO is technically correct because you can’t see the ball actually being grounded. I actually think you can, but nevertheless, there is literally nothing else that could have been in the way. You can clearly see there are no hands or feet where the ball lands. You see it stop, and rebound slightly because it has HIT THE GROUND. If the TMO really thinks that isn’t enough, there is no point in having one at all.

[topofthemoon]

I’ve got a really annoying Irish friend who agrees that the ball is down (as does everyone) but continues to argue that the TMO is technically correct because you can’t see the ball actually being grounded. I actually think you can, but nevertheless, there is literally nothing else that could have been in the way. You can clearly see there are no hands or feet where the ball lands. You see it stop, and rebound slightly because it has HIT THE GROUND. If the TMO really thinks that isn’t enough, there is no point in having one at all.

Like I said if Berry is clearer and says it was held up on the yellow boot I think it's much easier to get to the correct decision which is what the TMO Protocol is supposed to be about.

[robmatic]

I thought Berry could have made a bit more of an effort to go in and see where the ball ended up as well.

[HKCJ]

I thought Berry could have made a bit more of an effort to go in and see where the ball ended up as well.

100% agree. If Luke Pearce was reffing he would have had his head right in there and correct decision would have been made.

[I like neeps]

Harry was excellent. Rock solid under the high ball and played a huge part in the try.

I'm happy for the lad

and for Edinburgh too

I want to see much more of Harry but also some of the U20 players before the end of the season. Callum Norrie needs gametime at Glasgow, as does McConnell for Edinburgh and several others too.

They won't get it because Glasgow and Edinburgh are doing well and coaches have shown time and time again to favour experience.

Paterson was really good, as was Kyle Rowe. Kyle Rowe - good player all through age grades, all through super 6 and would likely be lost to the game if Irish hadn't picked him up (and considering they're no longer in existence these days they wouldn't).

Paterson won't play 10 more game all season now because he's fifth/sixth choice at Edinburgh. How's that development? And Boffeli okay world class operator, Goosen is very good but not world class.

Scottish rugby needs to get real and have coaches limited to the amount of NSQs they can have.

[SomersetJock]

Didn’t have a great angle for seeing the screens yesterday and couldn’t hear the TMO/ref conversation so left Murrayfield not knowing if we had been hard done to or not.

Within 5 mins the number of messages I was getting from friends and a phonecall from a very irate niece told me something was not right.

Just watched it this morning and wow, I won’t waste time writing what’s already been said.

At worst our sport is corrupt, at best it’s incompetent.
I’m starting to question spending the money I do to attend matches.

On the plus side of things I was very impressed by young Patterson. Such a shame his debut will be remembered by corruption/incompetence by officials.

Lot of excellent French fans sat around us at the match, great fun had by all !

[Yr Alban]

I thought Berry could have made a bit more of an effort to go in and see where the ball ended up as well.

That was definitely part of the problem. He called it as held up without bothering to actually get in there and see, which meant that when the TMO bottled it, he reverted to his incorrect on-field decision. So bloody frustrating.

[KingBlairhorn]

I think there are a whole range of things that could be tried. Some ideas I have spent literally seconds thinking up:

Quotas for non SQ players in absolute numbers
Quotas for non SQ players in percentage minutes played
Designation of specific positions as non-qualifying for non SQ players
Development plans agreed with national coaches at the start of each season including playing time that must be met
Freer movement of young players between pro teams, specifically young players becoming up for grabs if not played x times in a 6 month period (I.e. if Edinburgh don’t play Patterson x times in 6 months then Glasgow can take him)
Permanent establishment of a national team side in super6 (with certain age criteria) with mandatory use for pro players with insufficient gametime
Better use of the drafting process in super6 with players actually dropping down regularly if not getting playing time

And so on. There are dozens of things that could be done, the SRU and Glasgow/Esinburgh need to get their fingers out and actually instigate some meaningful systems so that there is a clear and established pathway. The ideas above may well be junk, but they have an organisation stuffed full of talented coaches and development specialists who must all have ideas, find out what they are and implement the best ones.

[Yr Alban]

It’s a shame that what we obviously need - in other words, a third pro team - now appears to be off the agenda permanently.

[KingBlairhorn]

It’s a shame that what we obviously need - in other words, a third pro team - now appears to be off the agenda permanently.

Yeah, I’ve said it before, most of Scottish rugby’s problems could probably be sorted in short order by a rich benefactor turning up and funding a pro team. There are plenty rich Scottish people with the means to do so and a love for rugby but that kind of ‘philanthropy’ seems to be unusual for the Scottish ultra-wealthy. The only one I can think of who has ever done so is David Murray and he turned out to be a charlatan.

[inactionman]

It’s a shame that what we obviously need - in other words, a third pro team - now appears to be off the agenda permanently.

Yeah, I’ve said it before, most of Scottish rugby’s problems could probably be sorted in short order by a rich benefactor turning up and funding a pro team. There are plenty rich Scottish people with the means to do so and a love for rugby but that kind of ‘philanthropy’ seems to be unusual for the Scottish ultra-wealthy. The only one I can think of who has ever done so is David Murray and he turned out to be a charlatan.

It may sound nice, but I'd humbly suggest you'd not want to head too far down that road.

Put another way, if someone wealthy did invest, it won't be purely for philanthropic reasons, and if times are tough there's not always incentive (or means) to stay the course.

[dpedin]

Another positive in the gloom, I thought Schooooooo was brilliant all game. He was up against a traction engine, who was then supported later in the scrum by a small shipping tanker, but he never took a step back in the tight, in fact he dominated, and he carried really effectively.

100% this! Schoo was brilliant throughout the game but in the scrum he was just superb. At pone point the TV commentator noted he had about 250kgs pushing against him yet he was rock solid in every scum and even looked like he was getting the better of Antonio. Being an inch or 5 shorter than Antonio he then managed to get low but legal and negated all the power the French scrum tried to exert. A perfect scummaging display from him and to be fair the whole front row and subs. MOTM for me.

[Blackmac]

I thought Berry could have made a bit more of an effort to go in and see where the ball ended up as well.

That was definitely part of the problem. He called it as held up without bothering to actually get in there and see, which meant that when the TMO bottled it, he reverted to his incorrect on-field decision. So bloody frustrating.

If you look at his positioning it's great. All he had to do was take one step forward to get a better view, but he didn't. Complete incompetence.

[Blackmac]

I can't stand all this bollocks about, Scotland should have won the game before that and not been reliant on the decision. It's Scotland for fuck sake, we are punching well about our weight as it is and it's ridiculous to be suggesting we should be putting games against France out of sight. With the best will in the world we need to be at our best and France need to be below par for us to compete.

[Tichtheid]

I thought Berry could have made a bit more of an effort to go in and see where the ball ended up as well.

That was definitely part of the problem. He called it as held up without bothering to actually get in there and see, which meant that when the TMO bottled it, he reverted to his incorrect on-field decision. So bloody frustrating.

If you look at his positioning it's great. All he had to do was take one step forward to get a better view, but he didn't. Complete incompetence.

I’ve just seen a still photo on FB with Berry making the “Held up” gesture, he is low to the ground, beside him Sione is standing and pointing to the ball on the ground.

[Big D]

Going by Wiki, I count 7 NSQ at Edinburgh and 8 at Glasgow.

Edinburgh:
- DeBruin (out of contract this year from what I can find)
- Venter (2026)
- Nield - short/1 year deal to cover during RWC and Muncaster got a knee injury
- Sweil - short term cover, possibly kept on after Kinghorn left
- Mata (going)
- Boffelli (2025)
- Goosen (unclear if 2 (2024) or 3 (2025) contract)

Mata and Boffelli are both world class and will have helped raise the level of those around.

The props is a bit chicken and egg. Are we not developing props because they are not getting senior game time or are they just not very good and would cause significant detriment to the team by playing?

I can see sense in the Goosen signing given there will be times that all the senior experienced back 3 players would be unavailable. Paterson was injured for large parts of 2023 too.

Given Mata is leaving, and two are short term deals Edinburgh might be carrying fewer NSQ next season.

[I like neeps]

It’s a shame that what we obviously need - in other words, a third pro team - now appears to be off the agenda permanently.

But we won't get a third pro team, so the SRU big wigs need to create actual development pathways with the two we have.

Which regrettably means, fewer NSQs.