6 Nations Round 4 - Italy v Scotland

[npradmin]

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Teams TBA

[Slick]

Walk in the park for Scotland

[fishfoodie]

Walk in the park for Scotland

Yep !

...

Central Park, NY, about 3am, & Scotland are drunk, & wearing a $5k suit, & a Rolex.

[Slick]

Walk in the park for Scotland

Yep !

...

Central Park, NY, about 3am, & Scotland are drunk, & wearing a $5k suit, & a Rolex.

That's the spirit!

Nervous as hell about this one.

[fishfoodie]

Walk in the park for Scotland

Yep !

...

Central Park, NY, about 3am, & Scotland are drunk, & wearing a $5k suit, & a Rolex.

That's the spirit!

Nervous as hell about this one.

Should be a really entertaining & enjoyable game.

Even more so if you don't have skin in it, & can just watch two teams who like to play a bit.

[Begbie]

15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (51)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (17)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (46)
12. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (12)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (37)

10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (78)
9. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (28)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (29)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (43)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (65)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Vice-Captain – Edinburgh Rugby (70)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (36)
6. Andy Christie – Saracens (6)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (17)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (18)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (15)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (3)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (2)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (33)
20. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (48)
21. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (42)
22. Ali Price – Edinburgh Rugby (66)
23. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (3)

[Jock42]

Is White injured? I'm happy with Horne starting regardless tbf. Not sure they need a 6-2 split, I'd probably have put McDowall on the bench if he doesn't see the need for Healy. That's my only "gripe", strong team.

EDIT: I see White is just rested.

[JM2K6]

Scottish nerves aside, this should be a thumping win for Scotland given respective form and talent depth.

Looking forward to watching Redpath, he was great coming off the bench against England.

[westport]

Good to see Christie and finally wee George getting a start

[sturginho]

15. Blair Kinghorn – Toulouse (51)
14. Kyle Steyn – Glasgow Warriors (17)
13. Huw Jones – Glasgow Warriors (46)
12. Cameron Redpath – Bath Rugby (12)
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Edinburgh Rugby (37)

10. Finn Russell – Co-Captain – Bath Rugby (78)
9. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors (28)

1. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby (29)
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors (43)
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (65)
4. Grant Gilchrist – Vice-Captain – Edinburgh Rugby (70)
5. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors (36)
6. Andy Christie – Saracens (6)
7. Rory Darge – Co-Captain – Glasgow Warriors (17)
8. Jack Dempsey – Glasgow Warriors (18)

Replacements

16. Ewan Ashman – Edinburgh Rugby (15)
17. Alec Hepburn – Exeter Chiefs (3)
18. Elliot Millar-Mills – Northampton Saints (2)
19. Sam Skinner – Edinburgh Rugby (33)
20. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby (48)
21. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors (42)
22. Ali Price – Edinburgh Rugby (66)
23. Kyle Rowe – Glasgow Warriors (3)

looks weak

[sturginho]

15 Ange CAPUOZZO (Stade Toulousain, 18 caps)
14 Louis LYNAGH (Harlequins, esordiente)
13 Juan Ignacio BREX (Benetton Rugby, 33 caps)
12 Tommaso MENONCELLO (Benetton Rugby, 16 caps)
11 Monty IOANE (Lione 28 caps)

10 Paolo GARBISI (Tolone, 34 caps)
9 Martin PAGE-RELO (Lione, 6 caps)

8 Ross VINTCENT (Exeter, 2 caps)
7 Michele LAMARO (Benetton Rugby, 36 caps) – capitano
6 Sebastian NEGRI (Benetton Rugby, 53 caps)
5 Federico RUZZA (Benetton Rugby, 52 caps)
4 Niccolò CANNONE (Benetton Rugby, 39 caps)
3 Simone FERRARI (Benetton Rugby, 51 caps)
2 Giacomo NICOTERA (Benetton Rugby, 21 caps)
1 Danilo FISCHETTI (Zebre Parma, 39 caps)

A disposizione

16 Gianmarco LUCCHESI (Benetton Rugby, 20 caps)
17 Mirco SPAGNOLO (Benetton Rugby, 3 caps)
18 Giosuè ZILOCCHI (Benetton Rugby, 19 caps)
19 Andrea ZAMBONIN (Zebre Parma, 6 caps)
20 Lorenzo CANNONE (Benetton Rugby, 17 caps)
21 Stephen VARNEY (Gloucester, 27 caps)
22 Leonardo MARIN (Benetton Rugby, 7 caps)
23 Federico MORI (Bayonne, 16 caps)

[Slick]

Lynagh straight in, very Scottish

[Uncle fester]

Whatever happened to that Watson flanker fella?

[Slick]

Whatever happened to that Watson flanker fella?

Out of favour. He went through a bad patch of injury and form and has been overtaken by a bunch of the youngsters. I'd still have him there or thereabouts mind you.

[Begbie]

I think Italy will win this. They'll be pumped after that near miss v France and at home in front of a sell out crowd.

[Slick]

I think Italy will win this. They'll be pumped after that near miss v France and at home in front of a sell out crowd.

Huge occasion for them, which can obviously go one of two ways.

I do think this Scotland team should be too good to fall into the trap, but look what happened at Cardiff.

[TartanBear]

Italy have a very good back 3, and Brex will ask the centres some serious questions. Can see Italy doing some serious damage if Scotland doesn’t play better than they have in every game so far. I thought Scotland was very fortunate to walk away with a win at Murrayfield last year…

[Jock42]

I think Italy will win this. They'll be pumped after that near miss v France and at home in front of a sell out crowd.

Huge occasion for them, which can obviously go one of two ways.

I do think this Scotland team should be too good to fall into the trap, but look what happened at Cardiff.

Yup, I'm nervous about it but reckon they'll come away with a good win.

[Tichtheid]

I was more confident prior to the Wales and England games, even the French one. Supporters of other teams might see our trepidation regarding tomorrow’s game as underdogging or playing some silly mockers thing, they don’t have our history since the five nations became six.
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds

[SaintK]

I was more confident prior to the Wales and England games, even the French one. Supporters of other teams might see our trepidation regarding tomorrow’s game as underdogging or playing some silly mockers thing, they don’t have our history since the five nations became six.
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds

FFS
Scotland by +16

[Tichtheid]

I was more confident prior to the Wales and England games, even the French one. Supporters of other teams might see our trepidation regarding tomorrow’s game as underdogging or playing some silly mockers thing, they don’t have our history since the five nations became six.
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds

FFS
Scotland by +16

You've never lost to them, you've won seven six Nations titles and a World Cup, a disappointing run for England is what they have been going through in the last couple of years, a bad World Cup for you is not winning it, with all due respect, you have no idea what this feels like.

[sockwithaticket]

I was more confident prior to the Wales and England games, even the French one. Supporters of other teams might see our trepidation regarding tomorrow’s game as underdogging or playing some silly mockers thing, they don’t have our history since the five nations became six.
On paper we win this but I still don’t see the mental strength in Scotland that we see in the top teams, the sides that only very rarely lose games they should win on paper and also win games against the odds

FFS
Scotland by +16

You've never lost to them, you've won seven six Nations titles and a World Cup, a disappointing run for England is what they have been going through in the last couple of years, a bad World Cup for you is not winning it, with all due respect, you have no idea what this feels like.

You just made me realise it's been four years since we won more than 2 games in the 6N. Our slump is every bit as long as it feels.

Also, while I have sympathy for prior bad experience with Italy, goodness knows we've had enough times when a less fancied Celtic nations has upset our party, I don't see any reason in the here and now to be anything less than bullish about your chances. History only counts for so much, current form is much more important and on that basis you are the better side.

[Tichtheid]

History only counts for so much, current form is much more important and on that basis you are the better side.

Yes, but that is what I meant when I'm talking about our mental frailty, that still hasn't been addressed fully - Ireland would never race out to the lead we did against Wales and then let it be so close in the end, the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best. France post RWC and without Dupont are a shadow of the side from last year and we lost due to not being calm under pressure and making the wrong decisions, particularly at the very end.

If we come out in Rome tomorrow and win well, that will be a big step for this Scotland team, a huge step in fact.

[Lobby]

History only counts for so much, current form is much more important and on that basis you are the better side.

Ireland would never race out to the lead we did against Wales and then let it be so close in the end, the ABs wouldn't do that.

You sure about that? Its only 15 months since the ABs gave up a 19 point lead in less than 10 minutes against England and ended up drawing a game they should have won comfortably.

In case you've forgotten NZ were winning 25 - 6 after 71 minutes when Beauden Barrett was yellow carded. In the next 8 minutes England scored 3 tries to draw the match and leave NZ praying for the final whistle.

Wales may have given you a bit of a fright and you conceded a lot of points as a result of poor discipline and two yellow cards, but you still won the match, which is more than the ABs did in a similar position.

As others have said this should be a walk in the park for Scotland.

[Tichtheid]

History only counts for so much, current form is much more important and on that basis you are the better side.

Ireland would never race out to the lead we did against Wales and then let it be so close in the end, the ABs wouldn't do that.

You sure about that? Its only 15 months since the ABs gave up a 19 point lead in less than 10 minutes against England and ended up drawing a game they should have won comfortably.

In case you've forgotten NZ were winning 25 - 6 after 71 minutes when Beauden Barrett was yellow carded. In the next 8 minutes England scored 3 tries to draw the match and leave NZ praying for the final whistle.

Wales may have given you a bit of a fright and you conceded a lot of points as a result of poor discipline and two yellow cards, but you still won the match, which is more than the ABs did in a similar position.

As others have said this should be a walk in the park for Scotland.

You missed out the last four words of what I said, "the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best"

The ABs haven't been at their best for a while

England beat Italy by three points, Ireland pumped them but then they drew with France. Ireland have comfortably been the best side so far, but I'm not sure tomorrow will be a walk in the park for Scotland, I really don't see where that idea is coming from.

[Lobby]

Ireland would never race out to the lead we did against Wales and then let it be so close in the end, the ABs wouldn't do that.

You sure about that? Its only 15 months since the ABs gave up a 19 point lead in less than 10 minutes against England and ended up drawing a game they should have won comfortably.

In case you've forgotten NZ were winning 25 - 6 after 71 minutes when Beauden Barrett was yellow carded. In the next 8 minutes England scored 3 tries to draw the match and leave NZ praying for the final whistle.

Wales may have given you a bit of a fright and you conceded a lot of points as a result of poor discipline and two yellow cards, but you still won the match, which is more than the ABs did in a similar position.

As others have said this should be a walk in the park for Scotland.

You missed out the last four words of what I said, "the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best"

The ABs haven't been at their best for a while

England beat Italy by three points, Ireland pumped them but then they drew with France. Ireland have comfortably been the best side so far, but I'm not sure tomorrow will be a walk in the park for Scotland, I really don't see where that idea is coming from.

They were still good enough to beat Ireland in the World Cup and thrashed Scotland a week before their meltdown against England.

[Tichtheid]

You sure about that? Its only 15 months since the ABs gave up a 19 point lead in less than 10 minutes against England and ended up drawing a game they should have won comfortably.

In case you've forgotten NZ were winning 25 - 6 after 71 minutes when Beauden Barrett was yellow carded. In the next 8 minutes England scored 3 tries to draw the match and leave NZ praying for the final whistle.

Wales may have given you a bit of a fright and you conceded a lot of points as a result of poor discipline and two yellow cards, but you still won the match, which is more than the ABs did in a similar position.

As others have said this should be a walk in the park for Scotland.

You missed out the last four words of what I said, "the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best"

The ABs haven't been at their best for a while

England beat Italy by three points, Ireland pumped them but then they drew with France. Ireland have comfortably been the best side so far, but I'm not sure tomorrow will be a walk in the park for Scotland, I really don't see where that idea is coming from.

They were still good enough to beat Ireland in the World Cup and thrashed Scotland a week before their meltdown against England.

Scotland didn't play New Zealand in the WC.

However, presuming you meant Ireland thrashing Scotland, which came as a surprise to absolutely no-one, that only confirms that the game tomorrow is not a forgone conclusion, Shirley?

[Sandstorm]

Very wet in Rome today. Not great for two teams who like to throw the ball around.

[Lobby]

You missed out the last four words of what I said, "the ABs wouldn't do that, not at their best"

The ABs haven't been at their best for a while

England beat Italy by three points, Ireland pumped them but then they drew with France. Ireland have comfortably been the best side so far, but I'm not sure tomorrow will be a walk in the park for Scotland, I really don't see where that idea is coming from.

They were still good enough to beat Ireland in the World Cup and thrashed Scotland a week before their meltdown against England.

Scotland didn't play New Zealand in the WC.

However, presuming you meant Ireland thrashing Scotland, which came as a surprise to absolutely no-one, that only confirms that the game tomorrow is not a forgone conclusion, Shirley?

No, I was referring to the AB's win over Scotland a week before they drew with England.

[Tichtheid]

They were still good enough to beat Ireland in the World Cup and thrashed Scotland a week before their meltdown against England.

Scotland didn't play New Zealand in the WC.

However, presuming you meant Ireland thrashing Scotland, which came as a surprise to absolutely no-one, that only confirms that the game tomorrow is not a forgone conclusion, Shirley?

No, I was referring to the AB's win over Scotland a week before they drew with England.

So you’re talking about the November tests in 22?

That reinforces my point even more, Scotland were 22 -14 up on the hour mark and lost to two tries in the last few minutes, which speaks to the mental frailty I mentioned, we should have won that, Darcy Graham was half a touchline width away from probably the finish of the season to take us out to a big lead but even without that we should have held on for the win.

That ABs side was nothing like the Carter McCaw era though

[Lobby]

Scotland didn't play New Zealand in the WC.

However, presuming you meant Ireland thrashing Scotland, which came as a surprise to absolutely no-one, that only confirms that the game tomorrow is not a forgone conclusion, Shirley?

No, I was referring to the AB's win over Scotland a week before they drew with England.

So you’re talking about the November tests in 22?

That reinforces my point even more, Scotland were 22 -14 up on the hour mark and lost to two tries in the last few minutes, which speaks to the mental frailty I mentioned, we should have won that, Darcy Graham was half a touchline width away from probably the finish of the season to take us out to a big lead but even without that we should have held on for the win.

That ABs side was nothing like the Carter McCaw era though

Very few AB sides, either before or since, come close to matching the Carter McCaw era ABs, let alone anyone else.

If Ireland are the only team currently that you think can't be caught once they've raced into a big lead, that just puts Scotland on a par with everyone else; they're not a special case or any more fragile than any other of the 6N teams.

Although you should still win handily today, I'll still be hoping for an Italian victory.

[Tichtheid]

No, I was referring to the AB's win over Scotland a week before they drew with England.

So you’re talking about the November tests in 22?

That reinforces my point even more, Scotland were 22 -14 up on the hour mark and lost to two tries in the last few minutes, which speaks to the mental frailty I mentioned, we should have won that, Darcy Graham was half a touchline width away from probably the finish of the season to take us out to a big lead but even without that we should have held on for the win.

That ABs side was nothing like the Carter McCaw era though

Very few AB sides, either before or since, come close to matching the Carter McCaw era ABs, let alone anyone else.

If Ireland are the only team currently that you think can't be caught once they've raced into a big lead, that just puts Scotland on a par with everyone else; they're not a special case or any more fragile than any other of the 6N teams.

Although you should still win handily today, I'll still be hoping for an Italian victory.

Of the 15 matches we’ve played in Italy, Scotland have won 9 and Italy have won 6. I don’t think anyone else has that record against them. I’m not underdogging for some stupid mockers reason, Italy target this fixture, especially in Rome.

Talk of this being a walk in the park is nonsense, I was very confident of beating England and Wales, I’m less so about this game. This is borne of painful experience.

[Lobby]

So you’re talking about the November tests in 22?

That reinforces my point even more, Scotland were 22 -14 up on the hour mark and lost to two tries in the last few minutes, which speaks to the mental frailty I mentioned, we should have won that, Darcy Graham was half a touchline width away from probably the finish of the season to take us out to a big lead but even without that we should have held on for the win.

That ABs side was nothing like the Carter McCaw era though

Very few AB sides, either before or since, come close to matching the Carter McCaw era ABs, let alone anyone else.

If Ireland are the only team currently that you think can't be caught once they've raced into a big lead, that just puts Scotland on a par with everyone else; they're not a special case or any more fragile than any other of the 6N teams.

Although you should still win handily today, I'll still be hoping for an Italian victory.

Of the 15 matches we’ve played in Italy, Scotland have won 9 and Italy have won 6. I don’t think anyone else has that record against them. I’m not underdogging for some stupid mockers reason, Italy target this fixture, especially in Rome.

Talk of this being a walk in the park is nonsense, I was very confident of beating England and Wales, I’m less so about this game. This is borne of painful experience.

Most of Italy's wins came in the early years of the 6N when Scotland were genuinely awful and their main target each year was to avoid another wooden spoon.

This Scotland team is much better than that and arguably one of the best Scotland teams ever. Its certainly the best Scotland team of the professional era by some margin. You haven't lost to Italy since 2015.

I get why you might be nervous given how earlier and much poorer Scotland teams have performed, but any rational analysis makes the current Scotland team firm favourites for this match.

Anyway, here's hoping for a good match, and I hope you enjoy it.

[charltom]

Very few AB sides, either before or since, come close to matching the Carter McCaw era ABs, let alone anyone else.

If Ireland are the only team currently that you think can't be caught once they've raced into a big lead, that just puts Scotland on a par with everyone else; they're not a special case or any more fragile than any other of the 6N teams.

Although you should still win handily today, I'll still be hoping for an Italian victory.

Of the 15 matches we’ve played in Italy, Scotland have won 9 and Italy have won 6. I don’t think anyone else has that record against them. I’m not underdogging for some stupid mockers reason, Italy target this fixture, especially in Rome.

Talk of this being a walk in the park is nonsense, I was very confident of beating England and Wales, I’m less so about this game. This is borne of painful experience.

Most of Italy's wins came in the early years of the 6N when Scotland were genuinely awful and their main target each year was to avoid another wooden spoon.

This Scotland team is much better than that and arguably one of the best Scotland teams ever. Its certainly the best Scotland team of the professional era by some margin. You haven't lost to Italy since 2015.

I get why you might be nervous given how earlier and much poorer Scotland teams have performed, but any rational analysis makes the current Scotland team firm favourites for this match.

Anyway, here's hoping for a good match, and I hope you enjoy it.

Yes they are favourites, but yes they really do have a mental frailty that they are struggling to shake off. We hope that change is happening, but we don't know it yet. Scotland's mental weakness in recent years has been waaay worse than that of other teams, I am unhappy to confirm!

[ASMO]

Good to see Lynah has learned the words ro the anthem already

[Big D]

Why can't Beattie be on comms and Hastings off enjoying the game in a pub with his pals?

[Begbie]

Great start

[sturginho]

Ref knows what a knock on is right?

[Big D]

Horne needs to get some of those short passes lower or someone is going to get emptied.

A bit helter-skelter skelter there but good control when it mattered.

[Jim Lahey]

Ref knows what a knock on is right?

Yeah, looked obvious in real time. Not sure what he was thinking.