Goodbye Super Rugby, Hello PRO14

[average joe]

I’m in Enzedder’s camp - the expansions and change of format spoiled what was a great competition. Looking for positives, perhaps less familiarity will rejuvenate the All Black vs. Springbok rivalry (not that it needs it). I suspect we won’t have a true feel of how things are going for a few years when the global scene is back to normal and we are over the novelty of the new competitions.

I'm also in that camp, only I believe it was the Aussies who ruined it. You've hardly started on your new comp and the Aussies are already demanding more teams than they're good for. Soon they'll demand including some bazaar "Asian" team full of reject players from all over and then sticking you with the burden.

I think you’ll find that NZR are way ahead of you there Joe


NZR have just announced their plans for SR Aotearoa 2021 and 2022
2021 will be the 5 sides playing each other twice with a one off final and then, if they agree to it a home and away series against the Aussie sides, which is great if the Aussies agree (travel restrictions permitting) .

2022 will see a minimum of 3 sides added, there will be the Hawaii Passifika side, Fiji Drua, the Western force and possibly even a South China Lions side based out of the Bay of Plenty, Australian sides apart from the WF decline to apply for the 2022 version

So not one but three basterdised teams with no history or pedigree and the worst aussie team that got cut from the original SR comp. Although I'll argue that the Farce got a bit of a raw deal as they were at least better than the Rebels. If that's all they can come up with then NZR will be better off dropping SR completely and focusing on strengthening the Mitre 10 cup.

[Biffer]

Still waiting to understand Australia's level of success in Sr.

What does that have to do with anything?

I made the point that South Africa was a failure at SR. Using any criteria imaginable, this statement is 100% correct. They were useless at Super Rugby. An epic failure.

Now you seem determined to bring Australian Rugby into the discussion. I'm not sure why, but that's what you seem desperate to do. I am happy for you to make any statements about Australian Rugby that you'd like, but that won't change that fact that the departing South Africans were failures at Super Rugby level. Hopefully easy rugby will be more to their standard.

By the criteria you talked about at first (on the pitch) Australia are an equal failure. Which would suggest Super Rugby as a whole is a failure. A trans Tasman competition will be equally one sided. So what’s the point.

[Biffer]

I'm also in that camp, only I believe it was the Aussies who ruined it. You've hardly started on your new comp and the Aussies are already demanding more teams than they're good for. Soon they'll demand including some bazaar "Asian" team full of reject players from all over and then sticking you with the burden.

I think you’ll find that NZR are way ahead of you there Joe


NZR have just announced their plans for SR Aotearoa 2021 and 2022
2021 will be the 5 sides playing each other twice with a one off final and then, if they agree to it a home and away series against the Aussie sides, which is great if the Aussies agree (travel restrictions permitting) .

2022 will see a minimum of 3 sides added, there will be the Hawaii Passifika side, Fiji Drua, the Western force and possibly even a South China Lions side based out of the Bay of Plenty, Australian sides apart from the WF decline to apply for the 2022 version

So not one but three basterdised teams with no history or pedigree and the worst aussie team that got cut from the original SR comp. Although I'll argue that the Farce got a bit of a raw deal as they were at least better than the Rebels. If that's all they can come up with then NZR will be better off dropping SR completely and focusing on strengthening the Mitre 10 cup.

What is it about the SH that they keep designing shit competitions

[average joe]

Even though my team will be in the wilderness at least the rest of SA's teams will be facing real teams with great pedigree and history up North and not some makety uppity teams scratched together at the last minute.

[Mr. White]

Apols for thread jack, but I would like to know what is the deal with the PR Forum - it doesn't look like it is shutting down, so why was there a call for a new forum? To be clear, I don't mind the new one, nor did I mind the old one, I just want to know where most of the Pro14/16 posters still post so that I can get the sweetest of sweet banter.

[Carter's Choice]

I think you’ll find that NZR are way ahead of you there Joe


NZR have just announced their plans for SR Aotearoa 2021 and 2022
2021 will be the 5 sides playing each other twice with a one off final and then, if they agree to it a home and away series against the Aussie sides, which is great if the Aussies agree (travel restrictions permitting) .

2022 will see a minimum of 3 sides added, there will be the Hawaii Passifika side, Fiji Drua, the Western force and possibly even a South China Lions side based out of the Bay of Plenty, Australian sides apart from the WF decline to apply for the 2022 version

2021 will replicate this year. That makes complete sense given Covid-19 is still running rampant and travellers entering both NZ and Australia will need to be quarantined, making a TT comp unworkable.

For 2022, the NZR board has shortlisted four preferred options, which would include a minimum of an 8 team comp but could be a full 10 team TT comp.

“Yesterday the NZR board short-listed four preferred [candidates] for 2022 and beyond, subject to those caveats mentioned previously. We hope to announce them shortly, but some are subject to commercial confidentiality at this point.

“The board is committed to approving a minimum of three teams from the shortlist, with that decision to be made on 30 November.”

In terms of the makeup of those potential expansion franchises, all Impey could say was: “They are a combination of New Zealand and broadly Pasifika-based teams around the Asia-Pacific region. It’s not just New Zealand [teams] and not just Pasifika.”

Told the Hawaii-based Kanaloa outfit had indicated they were ready to proceed next year, Impey reiterated NZR’s view: “The board wasn’t satisfied at this point that any of applicants were able to put a team or provide the necessary financial backing. The last thing we want is for any team to come in and get smashed. Yes, there were parties that wanted licences for 2021, but we considered ... none were ready.”

And whilst 2021 looks to be another domestic only season, NZR Chairman Brett Impey is talking very positively about the prospects of a Trans Tasman comp in 2022 and beyond.

In terms of the trans-Tasman relationship and any hope of getting a mutually agreeable crossover competition sorted for 2021, Impey was defiantly positive.

“The situation regarding Australia has been beaten up … they didn’t want to be involved in our expression of interest process. But as far as we are concerned we have the door open to them in dialogue around a crossover competition once Super Rugby Aotearoa is over in 2021 and also on a trans-Tasman type competition [further down the track].”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sup ... n-for-2022

[handyman]

Nothing that I can do about it, so I'm excited to watch the new PRO18. Also, will be good to see if some of our teams can qualify for the European Rugby Champions Cup, going up against the best of Europe.

Bring it ON!

Pro16, from my understanding.

Ah

[sturginho]

In the meantime, Gavazzi is once again crapping on about introducing a 3rd Italian team, which can mean only one thing, he is up for reelection again

[sockwithaticket]

Apols for thread jack, but I would like to know what is the deal with the PR Forum - it doesn't look like it is shutting down, so why was there a call for a new forum? To be clear, I don't mind the new one, nor did I mind the old one, I just want to know where most of the Pro14/16 posters still post so that I can get the sweetest of sweet banter.

Jake gave one of his apocalyptic warnings that it would be, so this was set up as a lifeboat. There was a period over several weeks where PR did actually stop working at various points making it look like Jake hadn't just been yanking chains for once, so there was impetus to stay here over a protracted period.

Some of us have stuck around as we prefer the vibe* as well as some of the appearance and feature differences.


* this thread isn't a great example, but the English rugby one has been pretty decent so far. The big test will be during the international windows, English match threads on the old board got pretty unbearable, to the extent that plenty of English posters stopped bothering with them.

[Carter's Choice]

[By the criteria you talked about at first (on the pitch) Australia are an equal failure. Which would suggest Super Rugby as a whole is a failure. A trans Tasman competition will be equally one sided. So what’s the point.

Equal? Australia has won 25% more SR titles than SA.

[Jock42]

Cheetahs not gone yet.

[Slick]

Apols for thread jack, but I would like to know what is the deal with the PR Forum - it doesn't look like it is shutting down, so why was there a call for a new forum? To be clear, I don't mind the new one, nor did I mind the old one, I just want to know where most of the Pro14/16 posters still post so that I can get the sweetest of sweet banter.

Most of the Scots are here, most of the Welsh over there.

I presume you were not talking about the Irish

[Biffer]

[By the criteria you talked about at first (on the pitch) Australia are an equal failure. Which would suggest Super Rugby as a whole is a failure. A trans Tasman competition will be equally one sided. So what’s the point.

Equal? Australia has won 25% more SR titles than SA.

Or one more, if you're honest rather than playing with statistics. And South Africa has had substantially more runners up.

Super Rugby is a failure because the Aussies and the Saffers suck. You can't deflect it on to just one of them.

[Biffer]

Code: Select all

Apols for thread jack, but I would like to know what is the deal with the PR Forum - it doesn't look like it is shutting down, so why was there a call for a new forum? To be clear, I don't mind the new one, nor did I mind the old one, I just want to know where most of the Pro14/16 posters still post so that I can get the sweetest of sweet banter.

Most of the Scots are here, most of the Welsh over there.

I presume you were not talking about the Irish

So by default this board is far superior and less in bred.

[Carter's Choice]

[By the criteria you talked about at first (on the pitch) Australia are an equal failure. Which would suggest Super Rugby as a whole is a failure. A trans Tasman competition will be equally one sided. So what’s the point.

Equal? Australia has won 25% more SR titles than SA.

Or one more,

But just before you were boasting that their records were exactly "equal"? Now you concede that this was a lie. You've just outed yourself as a liar. A dishonest troll who invents facts to gain negative attention on the internet. How pathetic.

[Sandstorm]

What is it about the SH that they keep designing shit competitions

TV monies.

NZ has all the skills, but no fans. Aus is similar regarding fans. So they keep trying to bring in a PI or - in particular - Asian team to try to increase the cash in the pot.
SA has some skills and lots of fans....but the 34 NZ fans can't afford PVRs so miss out on watching their teams at 3am....that they don't watch anyway.

Simples.

[Biffer]

Equal? Australia has won 25% more SR titles than SA.

Or one more,

But just before you were boasting that their records were exactly "equal"? Now you concede that this was a lie. You've just outed yourself as a liar. A dishonest troll who invents facts to gain negative attention on the internet. How pathetic.

I didn't say exactly. You're a liar. A dishonest troll who invents facts to gain negative intention on the internet. How pathetic.

That's easy, isn't it?

But anyway

equal

adjective
being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value.

the key part of the definition being the 'or'.

When considering Australia in Super Rugby, their failure is equal to that of South Africa.

i.e. it's of the same degree

[Biffer]

What is it about the SH that they keep designing shit competitions

TV monies.

NZ has all the skills, but no fans. Aus is similar regarding fans. So they keep trying to bring in a PI or - in particular - Asian team to try to increase the cash in the pot.
SA has some skills and lots of fans....but the 34 NZ fans can't afford PVRs so miss out on watching their teams at 3am....that they don't watch anyway.

Simples.

Yeah, I understand they're desperate to find a way to raise revenue, but sweet jesus the ideas they come up with are just awful sometimes.

[Carter's Choice]

When considering Australia in Super Rugby, their failure is equal to that of South Africa.

i.e. it's of the same degree

Except Australian teams won 25% more titles than the South Africans. If you consider 25% more to be "equal" or "the same degree" than good for you, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Honest question why do you hate Australian Rugby so much?

[Enzedder]

I’m in Enzedder’s camp - the expansions and change of format spoiled what was a great competition. Looking for positives, perhaps less familiarity will rejuvenate the All Black vs. Springbok rivalry (not that it needs it). I suspect we won’t have a true feel of how things are going for a few years when the global scene is back to normal and we are over the novelty of the new competitions.

I'm also in that camp, only I believe it was the Aussies who ruined it. You've hardly started on your new comp and the Aussies are already demanding more teams than they're good for. Soon they'll demand including some bazaar "Asian" team full of reject players from all over and then sticking you with the burden.

I don't. Any Union could have scuppered expansions simply by saying no. The blame is shared.

[Biffer]

When considering Australia in Super Rugby, their failure is equal to that of South Africa.

i.e. it's of the same degree

Except Australian teams won 25% more titles than the South Africans. If you consider 25% more to be "equal" or "the same degree" than good for you, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Honest question why do you hate Australian Rugby so much?

4 out of 26 is of the same degree as 3 out of 26, clearly.

I don't hate Australian rugby, that's a paranoid leap of some sort on your part. I'm just highlighting your double standards.

[Carter's Choice]

When considering Australia in Super Rugby, their failure is equal to that of South Africa.

i.e. it's of the same degree

Except Australian teams won 25% more titles than the South Africans. If you consider 25% more to be "equal" or "the same degree" than good for you, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Honest question why do you hate Australian Rugby so much?

4 out of 26 is of the same degree as 3 out of 26, clearly.

I don't hate Australian rugby, that's a paranoid leap of some sort on your part. I'm just highlighting your double standards.

If I wanted to chat with someone who thinks that 3 is equal to 4, I'd chat with bimboman.

[Biffer]

Except Australian teams won 25% more titles than the South Africans. If you consider 25% more to be "equal" or "the same degree" than good for you, but we'll have to agree to disagree. Honest question why do you hate Australian Rugby so much?

4 out of 26 is of the same degree as 3 out of 26, clearly.

I don't hate Australian rugby, that's a paranoid leap of some sort on your part. I'm just highlighting your double standards.

If I wanted to chat with someone who thinks that 3 is equal to 4, I'd chat with bimboman.

Again, I've never said that. You're making stuff up again, like the troll you are.

[Carter's Choice]

4 out of 26 is of the same degree as 3 out of 26, clearly.

I don't hate Australian rugby, that's a paranoid leap of some sort on your part. I'm just highlighting your double standards.

If I wanted to chat with someone who thinks that 3 is equal to 4, I'd chat with bimboman.

Again, I've never said that. You're making stuff up again, like the troll you are.

Oh dear. A liar and a troll. What a horrible combination. You clearly used the word equal;

By the criteria you talked about at first (on the pitch) Australia are an equal failure.

[Jb1981]

Why put such an onus on titles as a qualifier of failure but ignore last place? That’s where the “winner” is clear.

[assfly]

Considering that the new Pro14 season starts this weekend, how do they intend to plug in the additional South African sides? A revised schedule that incorporates them from January? They've started with 12 teams but may end with 16.

[Not_Couch]

It's a bit of a letdown as a rugby fan that South Africa has only accumulated a total of 3 championships in over 2 decades.

I really feel for the likes of Lions, Stormers and Sharks fans who have all felt a sense of bitterness losing their respective finals, and missing out on logging in some sense of historic glory that is only reserved for NZ Super teams.

South Africa have really underperformed in the competition, (with an Argentine team winning the South African conference) but I think we can all benefit from this decision in the long term, South Africa teams should be able to finally dominate a competition like New Zealand has for so long. I'm happy for you guys.

But the proof in the pudding will be the performance of your national team, and how much of a struggle it might be to catch up to New Zealand on the international scene. No doubt this will be an advantage to Australia and will further enhance their skills at the top level at least.

[Jb1981]

Proof of the pudding being in the performance of the National team?

Not_Couch, I guess I will save any South African posters from needing to tap into the open goal by pointing out that the Springboks are current World Champions.

[Not_Couch]

Proof of the pudding being in the performance of the National team?

Not_Couch, I guess I will save any South African posters from needing to tap into the open goal by pointing our that the Springboks are current World Champions.

The asterisks of course is that they lost to New Zealand in said tournament. and still somehow think they deserve the mantle.

[Jambanja]

Proof of the pudding being in the performance of the National team?

Not_Couch, I guess I will save any South African posters from needing to tap into the open goal by pointing our that the Springboks are current World Champions.

The asterisks of course is that they lost to New Zealand in said tournament. and still somehow think they deserve the mantle.

They are the current TRC champions and the RWC champions, suck it up, there is no room on the trophy for explanations, deal with it

[Sards]

Proof of the pudding being in the performance of the National team?

Not_Couch, I guess I will save any South African posters from needing to tap into the open goal by pointing our that the Springboks are current World Champions.

The asterisks of course is that they lost to New Zealand in said tournament. and still somehow think they deserve the mantle.

The ABs are a good team no doubt and yes...we lost to the ABs in the round robin......

But FMe.......how the vok did the ABs get geaten by England in the knockouts.........seriously

[handyman]

The fact that NZ did not win RWC2019 has hurt them, hurt them bad.

[Jb1981]

The fact that NZ did not win RWC2019 has hurt them, hurt them bad.

Not all of us and nothing like during the lean years. I was cheering for you guys in the final.

[handyman]

The fact that NZ did not win RWC2019 has hurt them, hurt them bad.

Not all of us and nothing like during the lean years. I was cheering for you guys in the final.

Good man.

[average joe]

Why put such an onus on titles as a qualifier of failure but ignore last place? That’s where the “winner” is clear.

2nd place is only the first loser.

[Biffer]

If I wanted to chat with someone who thinks that 3 is equal to 4, I'd chat with bimboman.

Again, I've never said that. You're making stuff up again, like the troll you are.

Oh dear. A liar and a troll. What a horrible combination. You clearly used the word equal;

By the criteria you talked about at first (on the pitch) Australia are an equal failure.

And equal by definition means of the same degree. it doesn't have to mean exactly equal. Exactly equal means exactly equal.

I appreciate you're a colonist so don't fully grasp the mother tongue, so I'll make allowances for that and forgive you your error.

[Carter's Choice]

And equal by definition means of the same degree. it doesn't have to mean exactly equal. Exactly equal means exactly equal.

I appreciate you're a colonist so don't fully grasp the mother tongue, so I'll make allowances for that and forgive you your error.

So using your rationale, Scotland has been equally as successful as England at RWC tournaments?

[Not_Couch]

The fact that NZ did not win RWC2019 has hurt them, hurt them bad.

Not as much as it hurt England in the final.

I was kinda glad we didn't "three peat" it would have been disasterous for the international game.

[Jb1981]

And equal by definition means of the same degree. it doesn't have to mean exactly equal. Exactly equal means exactly equal.

I appreciate you're a colonist so don't fully grasp the mother tongue, so I'll make allowances for that and forgive you your error.

So using your rationale, Scotland has been equally as successful as England at RWC tournaments?

And was Southland’s 11-10 victory last weekend actually a draw with both sides finishing equal in score?

Surely the only time ‘equal’ doesn’t have to be exactly the same is when something is an approximation (feedback for example being described as favourable and negative in equal measure). In this case we know the numbers and they are not equal - they are roughly equal at best.

[Jb1981]

The fact that NZ did not win RWC2019 has hurt them, hurt them bad.

Not as much as it hurt England in the final.

I was kinda glad we didn't "three peat" it would have been disasterous for the international game.

Three-peats are fantastic. You are a Hurricanes fan though aren’t you so won’t understand.