Starmergeddon: They Came And Ate Us

[inactionman]

I have access to my school's alumni club and when I was deciding on my university degree had friends parents who were Partners/Directors of law firms, accountancy firms, SMEs set me up with work experience which is obviously a pretty good advantage.

This will likely be the case regardless of where you go to school if your parents are wealthy/well connected!

Right, and generally where do wealthy and well connected parents send their kids?

To the place where the educational standards are high?

[I like neeps]

This will likely be the case regardless of where you go to school if your parents are wealthy/well connected!

Right, and generally where do wealthy and well connected parents send their kids?

To the place where the educational standards are high?

And will continue to but now be faced with a tax on that. Ideal!

[Sandstorm]

What will the Govt use that 20% Private School tax for? HS2? New curtains in the bar in HoP?

Or to upgrade comprehensive schools standards?

[inactionman]

Right, and generally where do wealthy and well connected parents send their kids?

To the place where the educational standards are high?

And will continue to but now be faced with a tax on that. Ideal!

Not really, no.

Have you, in all honesty, actually comprehended anything I've written?

[I like neeps]

To the place where the educational standards are high?

And will continue to but now be faced with a tax on that. Ideal!

Not really, no.

Have you, in all honesty, actually comprehended anything I've written?

Yes, I understand that you're annoyed that your tax bill is going up on the advantages you want your daughter have at the expense of other parents and children.

The state are providing your daughter free at point of use education, you want your daughter to have a better standard of education (and sport, and co-curriculars, and better chances in her professional life which is great) and so you have access to that which now comes with a tax as it's not a charitable endeavour.

[petej]

Is it?

The "tax on private schools" is in fact a tax on those who pay private school fees, who by the way also pay the tax that funds state schools without (currently) taking a state school place up.

It is painfully obvious how this policy will make things worse, not better.

For the record, I work for a state school but have experience of both sides, which is fairly rare.

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They ARE charities. Many pupils benefit from bursaries, paid for out of funds built up from fees. Some get full bursaries.

And many of the schools do plenty for local communities.

Furthermore, independent school teaching staff give way more of their time to help with children's broader education, including sport and other activities at times of the week that most state school teachers would not dream of being at school. They do this, in most cases, for similar pay. Indeed I bet most independent schools won't be awarding the 5.5% rise that the state sector will enjoy this next year.

The extra staff that Reeves claims this VAT imposition will fund will amount to 0.3 teachers per school in England, i.e. bugger all. And that's if there are no negative effects on funding, which of course there will be as more comprehensive pupils need to be funded by the state.

If they are charities, they should call themselves charities. Some pupils benefit from bursaries but probably those who would actually need less support and likely succeed regardless. Many of the schools do plenty for local communities, so some don't? Have you considered that teachers who have far less pupils will have far less additional work (marking/planning) and, therefore, have far more time for extra curricular activities. I doubt in reality there will be many extra students in the state system due to this. This is more of a hysterical threat.

[petej]

What will the Govt use that 20% Private School tax for? HS2? New curtains in the bar in HoP?

Or to upgrade comprehensive schools standards?

Most likely elderly care considering UK demographics or healthcare in general considering the poor health/obesity of the UK population.

[robmatic]

The profits and dividends come from the increased opportunities and networks your kids have access to.

Hardly the same with books.

The fundamental service is of education.

Being snide, I eagerly await hearing about the secret handshake my daughter becomes privy to if/when she goes to her private school.

I have access to my school's alumni club and when I was deciding on my university degree had friends parents who were Partners/Directors of law firms, accountancy firms, SMEs set me up with work experience which is obviously a pretty good advantage.

I wonder if Rishi Sunak would have made it to PM if he had gone to his local comprehensive...

[inactionman]

And will continue to but now be faced with a tax on that. Ideal!

Not really, no.

Have you, in all honesty, actually comprehended anything I've written?

Yes, I understand that you're annoyed that your tax bill is going up on the advantages you want your daughter have at the expense of other parents and children.

The state are providing your daughter free at point of use education, you want your daughter to have a better standard of education (and sport, and co-curriculars, and better chances in her professional life which is great) and so you have access to that which now comes with a tax as it's not a charitable endeavour.

So, no, you haven't. Despite my clear and obvious invitation to do so.

She's an adopted child who was born prematurely due to domestic violence. I won't go into the months in intensive care, the oxygen or the health issues she suffers as a result. She - as you'd expect - struggles in school due to significant in vitro (eta: I meant in utero - she's not a science experiment) and early life trauma - like all adopted kids, she's also had the fun of losing who she thought were her mum and dad at 4 years of age.

Her school are not realistically able to offer the scope of support she needs, not thorough any lack of endeavour, effort and decency but because she has issues that they are simply not equipped to fully deal with. I have planned and saved to send her to a school that can support her, that I will pay for. But I may not be able to do that , because I am not made of money (unlike your mates, I don't appear to be a partner in a law firm) and someone has decided that adding 20% to the already eyewatering fees seems reasonable.

But, of course, I'm just after the secret handshakes.

If you have read my posts and don't give a shit, you need help. You're going onto ignore in any case.

[Sandstorm]

What will the Govt use that 20% Private School tax for? HS2? New curtains in the bar in HoP?

Or to upgrade comprehensive schools standards?

Most likely elderly care considering UK demographics or healthcare in general considering the poor health/obesity of the UK population.

What about the fat kids?

[Lobby]

Not really, no.

Have you, in all honesty, actually comprehended anything I've written?

Yes, I understand that you're annoyed that your tax bill is going up on the advantages you want your daughter have at the expense of other parents and children.

The state are providing your daughter free at point of use education, you want your daughter to have a better standard of education (and sport, and co-curriculars, and better chances in her professional life which is great) and so you have access to that which now comes with a tax as it's not a charitable endeavour.

So, no, you haven't. Despite my clear and obvious invitation to do so.

She's an adopted child who was born prematurely due to domestic violence. I won't go into the months in intensive care, the oxygen or the health issues she suffers as a result. She - as you'd expect - struggles in school due to significant in vitro and early life trauma - like all adopted kids, she's also had the fun of losing who she thought were her mum and dad at 4 years of age.

Her school are not realistically able to offer the scope of support she needs, not thorough any lack of endeavour, effort and decency but because she has issues that they are simply not equipped to fully deal with. I have planned and saved to send her to a school that can support her, that I will pay for. But I may not be able to do that , because I am not made of money (unlike your mates, I don't appear to be a partner in a law firm) and someone has decided that adding 20% to the already eyewatering fees seems reasonable.

But, of course, I'm just after the secret handshakes.

If you have read my posts and don't give a shit, you need help. You're going onto ignore in any case.

I don't know if this will apply in your case, but the Government papers do recognise that some people go to private school to have their specific needs met, and not just to gain privileged access to better education:

“... the government recognises some pupils have special educational needs that can only be met in a private school. Therefore, the government will consider how to address the potential impact of these changes in cases where private school provision has been specified for pupils through an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) – a plan given to children and young people who need more support than is available through special educational needs (SEN) support."

The Government has also stated that one of the principles underlying the changes to VAT and the removal of business rates charitable relief is that all users of private schools should pay their fair share, "whilst
ensuring that pupils with the most acute needs are not impacted".

[inactionman]

Yes, I understand that you're annoyed that your tax bill is going up on the advantages you want your daughter have at the expense of other parents and children.

The state are providing your daughter free at point of use education, you want your daughter to have a better standard of education (and sport, and co-curriculars, and better chances in her professional life which is great) and so you have access to that which now comes with a tax as it's not a charitable endeavour.

So, no, you haven't. Despite my clear and obvious invitation to do so.

She's an adopted child who was born prematurely due to domestic violence. I won't go into the months in intensive care, the oxygen or the health issues she suffers as a result. She - as you'd expect - struggles in school due to significant in vitro and early life trauma - like all adopted kids, she's also had the fun of losing who she thought were her mum and dad at 4 years of age.

Her school are not realistically able to offer the scope of support she needs, not thorough any lack of endeavour, effort and decency but because she has issues that they are simply not equipped to fully deal with. I have planned and saved to send her to a school that can support her, that I will pay for. But I may not be able to do that , because I am not made of money (unlike your mates, I don't appear to be a partner in a law firm) and someone has decided that adding 20% to the already eyewatering fees seems reasonable.

But, of course, I'm just after the secret handshakes.

If you have read my posts and don't give a shit, you need help. You're going onto ignore in any case.

I don't know if this will apply in your case, but the Government papers do recognise that some people go to private school to have their specific needs met, and not just to gain privileged access to better education:

“... the government recognises some pupils have special educational needs that can only be met in a private school. Therefore, the government will consider how to address the potential impact of these changes in cases where private school provision has been specified for pupils through an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) – a plan given to children and young people who need more support than is available through special educational needs (SEN) support."

The Government has also stated that one of the principles underlying the changes to VAT and the removal of business rates charitable relief is that all users of private schools should pay their fair share, "whilst
ensuring that pupils with the most acute needs are not impacted".

Ta for taking the trouble to dig that out - I'll see what I can find on this.

We're on various pathways to get assistance, and her school have been really good with supporting this - the issue is simply the timescales and the resources on the assessment side mean we'll likely be waiting years. One of our friends in England has an adopted son with significant needs, he's received funding to go to an independent school (fees are pushing £50k ) as his local comp just can't cope. It took until early teens to get this.

[petej]

Not really, no.

Have you, in all honesty, actually comprehended anything I've written?

Yes, I understand that you're annoyed that your tax bill is going up on the advantages you want your daughter have at the expense of other parents and children.

The state are providing your daughter free at point of use education, you want your daughter to have a better standard of education (and sport, and co-curriculars, and better chances in her professional life which is great) and so you have access to that which now comes with a tax as it's not a charitable endeavour.

So, no, you haven't. Despite my clear and obvious invitation to do so.

She's an adopted child who was born prematurely due to domestic violence. I won't go into the months in intensive care, the oxygen or the health issues she suffers as a result. She - as you'd expect - struggles in school due to significant in vitro and early life trauma - like all adopted kids, she's also had the fun of losing who she thought were her mum and dad at 4 years of age.

Her school are not realistically able to offer the scope of support she needs, not thorough any lack of endeavour, effort and decency but because she has issues that they are simply not equipped to fully deal with. I have planned and saved to send her to a school that can support her, that I will pay for. But I may not be able to do that , because I am not made of money (unlike your mates, I don't appear to be a partner in a law firm) and someone has decided that adding 20% to the already eyewatering fees seems reasonable.

But, of course, I'm just after the secret handshakes.

If you have read my posts and don't give a shit, you need help. You're going onto ignore in any case.

I am broadly opposed to private schools and if more of our political class had to send their kids to state schools they would be less flippant, arrogant and much more careful about education. Despite this I know I would do exactly as you are doing if I had a child with similar needs and there wasn't state provision.

[Lobby]

So, no, you haven't. Despite my clear and obvious invitation to do so.

She's an adopted child who was born prematurely due to domestic violence. I won't go into the months in intensive care, the oxygen or the health issues she suffers as a result. She - as you'd expect - struggles in school due to significant in vitro and early life trauma - like all adopted kids, she's also had the fun of losing who she thought were her mum and dad at 4 years of age.

Her school are not realistically able to offer the scope of support she needs, not thorough any lack of endeavour, effort and decency but because she has issues that they are simply not equipped to fully deal with. I have planned and saved to send her to a school that can support her, that I will pay for. But I may not be able to do that , because I am not made of money (unlike your mates, I don't appear to be a partner in a law firm) and someone has decided that adding 20% to the already eyewatering fees seems reasonable.

But, of course, I'm just after the secret handshakes.

If you have read my posts and don't give a shit, you need help. You're going onto ignore in any case.

I don't know if this will apply in your case, but the Government papers do recognise that some people go to private school to have their specific needs met, and not just to gain privileged access to better education:

“... the government recognises some pupils have special educational needs that can only be met in a private school. Therefore, the government will consider how to address the potential impact of these changes in cases where private school provision has been specified for pupils through an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) – a plan given to children and young people who need more support than is available through special educational needs (SEN) support."

The Government has also stated that one of the principles underlying the changes to VAT and the removal of business rates charitable relief is that all users of private schools should pay their fair share, "whilst
ensuring that pupils with the most acute needs are not impacted".

Ta for taking the trouble to dig that out - I'll see what I can find on this.

We're on various pathways to get assistance, and her school have been really good with supporting this - the issue is simply the timescales and the resources on the assessment side mean we'll likely be waiting years. One of our friends in England has an adopted son with significant needs, he's received funding to go to an independent school (fees are pushing £50k ) as his local comp just can't cope. It took until early teens to get this.

The Government papers can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... te-schools

The quotes above come from the technical notes, but you might also want to check out the draft legislation and the explanatory note.

[inactionman]

I don't know if this will apply in your case, but the Government papers do recognise that some people go to private school to have their specific needs met, and not just to gain privileged access to better education:

“... the government recognises some pupils have special educational needs that can only be met in a private school. Therefore, the government will consider how to address the potential impact of these changes in cases where private school provision has been specified for pupils through an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) – a plan given to children and young people who need more support than is available through special educational needs (SEN) support."

The Government has also stated that one of the principles underlying the changes to VAT and the removal of business rates charitable relief is that all users of private schools should pay their fair share, "whilst
ensuring that pupils with the most acute needs are not impacted".

Ta for taking the trouble to dig that out - I'll see what I can find on this.

We're on various pathways to get assistance, and her school have been really good with supporting this - the issue is simply the timescales and the resources on the assessment side mean we'll likely be waiting years. One of our friends in England has an adopted son with significant needs, he's received funding to go to an independent school (fees are pushing £50k ) as his local comp just can't cope. It took until early teens to get this.

The Government papers can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... te-schools

The quotes above come from the technical notes, but you might also want to check out the draft legislation and the explanatory note.

Ta for that, much appreciated.

[David in Gwent]

Labour Declare £20 Billion Black hole in finances



https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... limate-aid

Labour will honour a pledge of £11.6bn in overseas aid for the climate crisis, the energy secretary, Ed Miliband, told an unusual meeting of Cop presidents past and present on Friday, as he sought to re-establish the UK at the heart of international climate discussions.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-pub ... 024-07-29/

UK public sector workers get above-inflation pay rises, worth 9 billion pounds

Obviously they think we're stupid.

[epwc]

Obviously they think we're stupid.

Some of us undoubtedly are

[David in Gwent]

Obviously they think we're stupid.

Some of us undoubtedly are

I'm not the one who thinks paying more tax will change the weather.

[Raggs]

Increasing pay for NHS, Teachers etc looks pretty smart to me.

Trying to prevent climate change also looks pretty smart. I'm already extremely worried about what we'll be dealing with, let alone what my son will need to deal with. Thankfully our home is well above sea level and water levels nearby, on a good slope too, so shouldn't suffer flooding to any great degree.

[I like neeps]

Not really, no.

Have you, in all honesty, actually comprehended anything I've written?

Yes, I understand that you're annoyed that your tax bill is going up on the advantages you want your daughter have at the expense of other parents and children.

The state are providing your daughter free at point of use education, you want your daughter to have a better standard of education (and sport, and co-curriculars, and better chances in her professional life which is great) and so you have access to that which now comes with a tax as it's not a charitable endeavour.

So, no, you haven't. Despite my clear and obvious invitation to do so.

She's an adopted child who was born prematurely due to domestic violence. I won't go into the months in intensive care, the oxygen or the health issues she suffers as a result. She - as you'd expect - struggles in school due to significant in vitro (eta: I meant in utero - she's not a science experiment) and early life trauma - like all adopted kids, she's also had the fun of losing who she thought were her mum and dad at 4 years of age.

Her school are not realistically able to offer the scope of support she needs, not thorough any lack of endeavour, effort and decency but because she has issues that they are simply not equipped to fully deal with. I have planned and saved to send her to a school that can support her, that I will pay for. But I may not be able to do that , because I am not made of money (unlike your mates, I don't appear to be a partner in a law firm) and someone has decided that adding 20% to the already eyewatering fees seems reasonable.

But, of course, I'm just after the secret handshakes.

If you have read my posts and don't give a shit, you need help. You're going onto ignore in any case.

Okay I apologise as I hadn't. Sorry inactionman for being insensitive

[David in Gwent]

Trying to prevent climate change also looks pretty smart. I'm already extremely worried about what we'll be dealing with, let alone what my son will need to deal with. Thankfully our home is well above sea level and water levels nearby, on a good slope too, so shouldn't suffer flooding to any great degree.

Ha ha.

You know they are building more airports in the Maldives right? I think you'll be safe for a while.

https://www.ttrweekly.com/site/2022/02/ ... -maldives/

[shaggy]

I don't know if this will apply in your case, but the Government papers do recognise that some people go to private school to have their specific needs met, and not just to gain privileged access to better education:

“... the government recognises some pupils have special educational needs that can only be met in a private school. Therefore, the government will consider how to address the potential impact of these changes in cases where private school provision has been specified for pupils through an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP) – a plan given to children and young people who need more support than is available through special educational needs (SEN) support."

The Government has also stated that one of the principles underlying the changes to VAT and the removal of business rates charitable relief is that all users of private schools should pay their fair share, "whilst
ensuring that pupils with the most acute needs are not impacted".

Ta for taking the trouble to dig that out - I'll see what I can find on this.

We're on various pathways to get assistance, and her school have been really good with supporting this - the issue is simply the timescales and the resources on the assessment side mean we'll likely be waiting years. One of our friends in England has an adopted son with significant needs, he's received funding to go to an independent school (fees are pushing £50k ) as his local comp just can't cope. It took until early teens to get this.

The Government papers can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... te-schools

The quotes above come from the technical notes, but you might also want to check out the draft legislation and the explanatory note.

Multiple year time frame to get an EHCP if you are not destroyed by the utterly brain dead fucks in your LEA.

[inactionman]

Ta for taking the trouble to dig that out - I'll see what I can find on this.

We're on various pathways to get assistance, and her school have been really good with supporting this - the issue is simply the timescales and the resources on the assessment side mean we'll likely be waiting years. One of our friends in England has an adopted son with significant needs, he's received funding to go to an independent school (fees are pushing £50k ) as his local comp just can't cope. It took until early teens to get this.

The Government papers can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... te-schools

The quotes above come from the technical notes, but you might also want to check out the draft legislation and the explanatory note.

Multiple year time frame to get an EHCP if you are not destroyed by the utterly brain dead fucks in your LEA.

Our expectations have been set that nothing will happen quickly, unfortunately

[charltom]

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They ARE charities. Many pupils benefit from bursaries, paid for out of funds built up from fees. Some get full bursaries.

And many of the schools do plenty for local communities.

Furthermore, independent school teaching staff give way more of their time to help with children's broader education, including sport and other activities at times of the week that most state school teachers would not dream of being at school. They do this, in most cases, for similar pay. Indeed I bet most independent schools won't be awarding the 5.5% rise that the state sector will enjoy this next year.

The extra staff that Reeves claims this VAT imposition will fund will amount to 0.3 teachers per school in England, i.e. bugger all. And that's if there are no negative effects on funding, which of course there will be as more comprehensive pupils need to be funded by the state.

Why will bursaries no longer be given?

Got the figures for number of extra teachers? And it doesn't have to be teachers, more teachers aides will benefit the struggling children a lot more than an individual teacher, it will also allow the teacher to then get on with teaching the whole class, than spending more time trying to help those that struggle. TAs are a lot cheaper than teachers too.

Haha. 0.6 TAs or slightly fewer LSAs per school will also make minimal difference. And the problem with the latter is scarcity in that there are not lots of them available.

I didn't say that bursaries would no longer be awarded, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that they are starting to be pared back. And one driver for that is the need to reduce spending further in order to reduce the extra that parents will need to be charged. So that's another move contrary to equality of opportunity brought about by the addition of VAT to fees.

[Raggs]

They ARE charities. Many pupils benefit from bursaries, paid for out of funds built up from fees. Some get full bursaries.

And many of the schools do plenty for local communities.

Furthermore, independent school teaching staff give way more of their time to help with children's broader education, including sport and other activities at times of the week that most state school teachers would not dream of being at school. They do this, in most cases, for similar pay. Indeed I bet most independent schools won't be awarding the 5.5% rise that the state sector will enjoy this next year.

The extra staff that Reeves claims this VAT imposition will fund will amount to 0.3 teachers per school in England, i.e. bugger all. And that's if there are no negative effects on funding, which of course there will be as more comprehensive pupils need to be funded by the state.

Why will bursaries no longer be given?

Got the figures for number of extra teachers? And it doesn't have to be teachers, more teachers aides will benefit the struggling children a lot more than an individual teacher, it will also allow the teacher to then get on with teaching the whole class, than spending more time trying to help those that struggle. TAs are a lot cheaper than teachers too.

Haha. 0.6 TAs or slightly fewer LSAs per school will also make minimal difference. And the problem with the latter is scarcity in that there are not lots of them available.

I didn't say that bursaries would no longer be awarded, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that they are starting to be pared back. And one driver for that is the need to reduce spending further in order to reduce the extra that parents will need to be charged. So that's another move contrary to equality of opportunity brought about by the addition of VAT to fees.

Can you please supply where you're getting those figures from... 30000 schools, 1-1.7b raised per year, £15k for a TA, works out to roughly 2 TA's per school, if going with the low figure of £1bn.

Why will bursaries be pared back? Most aren't 100%, meaning the students still bring money into the school. Does it cost the school significantly more to have an extra child in the classroom?

[Paddington Bear]

I have access to my school's alumni club and when I was deciding on my university degree had friends parents who were Partners/Directors of law firms, accountancy firms, SMEs set me up with work experience which is obviously a pretty good advantage.

This will likely be the case regardless of where you go to school if your parents are wealthy/well connected!

Right, and generally where do wealthy and well connected parents send their kids?

You understand what the word ‘regardless’ means, right?

[charltom]

It's a tricky situation all round. I'd also augment your post to say the SNP haven't exactly helped this side of the border, but the net effect is the same.

Except it isn't. England's PISA rankings have (surprisingly to me( improved greatly; Scotland's have deteriorated.

Ranking sort of improved. Score didn't. Most countries went down between 2018 and 2022, it shouldn't be hard to work out why. England was no different, our score dropped from 2018 to 2022 too. England went down less than others, but...

1 in 3 schools didn't take part in England, and 1 in 4 students refused to take part (I presume, the 1 in 4 students, came from the remaining 2/3rds of schools). I'm willing to bet a lot that it wasn't the better performing schools or students who refused more often... England didn't actually qualify for the rankings because of this.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pisa-2022-ris ... d-results/

I think a rise in Maths from 27th in 2009 to 11th in 2022 is a lot better than "sort of" improved.

And England scores higher than Scotland on all measures - 20 points higher on two of the three.

[Raggs]

Except it isn't. England's PISA rankings have (surprisingly to me( improved greatly; Scotland's have deteriorated.

Ranking sort of improved. Score didn't. Most countries went down between 2018 and 2022, it shouldn't be hard to work out why. England was no different, our score dropped from 2018 to 2022 too. England went down less than others, but...

1 in 3 schools didn't take part in England, and 1 in 4 students refused to take part (I presume, the 1 in 4 students, came from the remaining 2/3rds of schools). I'm willing to bet a lot that it wasn't the better performing schools or students who refused more often... England didn't actually qualify for the rankings because of this.

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/pisa-2022-ris ... d-results/

I think a rise in Maths from 27th in 2009 to 11th in 2022 is a lot better than "sort of" improved.

And England scores higher than Scotland on all measures - 20 points higher on two of the three.

2022 results literally don't count in PISA's eyes. And everyone getting worse does not mean we're getting better.

[sefton]

The methodology for PISA testing is open enough to game the system, it’s not a standardised testing system.

[charltom]

I went to a private school, there was no reason for it to have been classed as a charity because it was not one. It's a way for parents to give their kids a leg up. Fine thing to want to do, government should then tax that though.

They ARE charities. Many pupils benefit from bursaries, paid for out of funds built up from fees. Some get full bursaries.

And many of the schools do plenty for local communities.

Furthermore, independent school teaching staff give way more of their time to help with children's broader education, including sport and other activities at times of the week that most state school teachers would not dream of being at school. They do this, in most cases, for similar pay. Indeed I bet most independent schools won't be awarding the 5.5% rise that the state sector will enjoy this next year.

The extra staff that Reeves claims this VAT imposition will fund will amount to 0.3 teachers per school in England, i.e. bugger all. And that's if there are no negative effects on funding, which of course there will be as more comprehensive pupils need to be funded by the state.

If they are charities, they should call themselves charities. Some pupils benefit from bursaries but probably those who would actually need less support and likely succeed regardless. Many of the schools do plenty for local communities, so some don't? Have you considered that teachers who have far less pupils will have far less additional work (marking/planning) and, therefore, have far more time for extra curricular activities. I doubt in reality there will be many extra students in the state system due to this. This is more of a hysterical threat.

They do call themselves charities. Your ignorance of that fact doesn't negate it.

I've worked in multiple comprehensives and independent schools. My workload now in a comp is definitely the least it has been, inclusive of marking and planning. That's partly because at comps you'll often get multiple classes of the same year and subject as a teacher.

[dpedin]

If 20% tax is added to Private Schools then that's probably 20% of students who can't go next year. So they head to the local school which is already overflowing with students and lacking teachers. This is a stupid tax trying to punish rich, Tory voters.

It's one measure to help reduce inequality. So for many the point is to do more, not not do even this.

As I said in earlier post current research points to between 3% and 7% of current pupils who might drop out of private into public sector - HoL Library published research in May this year. Primary school numbers are falling and secondary numbers will peak in 2026 and then fall for foreseeable future. There is capacity in public sector provision albeit perhaps not evenly spread across country. Lots of scaremongering about this issue. Both my kids went to fee paying schools by the way!

[charltom]

Why will bursaries no longer be given?

Got the figures for number of extra teachers? And it doesn't have to be teachers, more teachers aides will benefit the struggling children a lot more than an individual teacher, it will also allow the teacher to then get on with teaching the whole class, than spending more time trying to help those that struggle. TAs are a lot cheaper than teachers too.

Haha. 0.6 TAs or slightly fewer LSAs per school will also make minimal difference. And the problem with the latter is scarcity in that there are not lots of them available.

I didn't say that bursaries would no longer be awarded, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that they are starting to be pared back. And one driver for that is the need to reduce spending further in order to reduce the extra that parents will need to be charged. So that's another move contrary to equality of opportunity brought about by the addition of VAT to fees.

Can you please supply where you're getting those figures from... 30000 schools, 1-1.7b raised per year, £15k for a TA, works out to roughly 2 TA's per school, if going with the low figure of £1bn.

Why will bursaries be pared back? Most aren't 100%, meaning the students still bring money into the school. Does it cost the school significantly more to have an extra child in the classroom?

I simply doubled the well established teacher number of 0.3, which was kind given that both RR and KS have referred to hiring 6500 teachers, which equates to slightly over 0.2 per school. Notably teachers rather than TAs are their focus.

I've already told you why bursaries would be pared back. Lots are for high percentages, but I have seen lower % ones reduced too, and yes there is a cost to every extra child, quite obviously.

Bursaries are far more common than you may think, and are all awarded on the basis of need.

[shaggy]

The Government papers can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... te-schools

The quotes above come from the technical notes, but you might also want to check out the draft legislation and the explanatory note.

Multiple year time frame to get an EHCP if you are not destroyed by the utterly brain dead fucks in your LEA.

Our expectations have been set that nothing will happen quickly, unfortunately

But are you prepared for the spitefulness and condescending attitude that will accompany it?

SOS!SEN

[SaintK]

I wonder what her deranged reaction will be to this

[Paddington Bear]

Home building targets slashed in London (i.e. where we actually need them). Nice one

[Raggs]

Home building targets slashed in London (i.e. where we actually need them). Nice one

We need them everywhere.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Home building targets slashed in London (i.e. where we actually need them). Nice one

No point in a target if it's entirely unrealistic.

London's target goes from 100k to 80k

Birmingham's goes from 7k to 5k

I will look forward to seeing how serious the govt are about pushing this through. In Surbiton there's a site which is frequently used as a poster child for NIMBY locals - Seething Wells filter beds. Let's see what happens here.

[Paddington Bear]

Home building targets slashed in London (i.e. where we actually need them). Nice one

We need them everywhere.

To an extent, but London is screaming for them and will not deliver them

[TheNatalShark]

Home building targets slashed in London (i.e. where we actually need them). Nice one

No point in a target if it's entirely unrealistic.

London's target goes from 100k to 80k

Birmingham's goes from 7k to 5k

I will look forward to seeing how serious the govt are about pushing this through. In Surbiton there's a site which is frequently used as a poster child for NIMBY locals - Seething Wells filter beds. Let's see what happens here.

The eyesore that gets planning dumped for being a "green space" along the river by the Boaters?

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Home building targets slashed in London (i.e. where we actually need them). Nice one

No point in a target if it's entirely unrealistic.

London's target goes from 100k to 80k

Birmingham's goes from 7k to 5k

I will look forward to seeing how serious the govt are about pushing this through. In Surbiton there's a site which is frequently used as a poster child for NIMBY locals - Seething Wells filter beds. Let's see what happens here.

The eyesore that gets planning dumped for being a "green space" along the river by the Boaters?

If you mean by The Harts Boatyard, yes.