Kicking off in Israel

[Tichtheid]

if they're posting on social media organising a "jew hunt" it might, just might be something to do with them being jewish

I've spent around 20 minutes watching videos and reading articles, I can see two posts printed in a Telegraph article, one refers to "Jew Hunt" another refers to "Cancer Jews". Both of those posts are antisemitic.

I'd repeat a question asked of you by, I think, Os. Have you any idea what goes on at football grounds across Europe every weekend and at midweek games? It was vile sectarianism at Scottish games that swore me off football, my sporting first love.

Dutch fans have a reputation for violence, I don't know if it's better or worse now than it was, but across Europe clubs have their "Ultras" and "Headhunters" and other lovely sections of their fan bases. It used to be that thugs from clubs would organise a match up between rival fans, again I don't know if they still do this, but with the messaging apps it would be a lot easier to do it now.

Football is still rife with bigotry, there are still monkey chants at players, homophobic abuse, yes antisemitic abuse, any excuse really. It's better than it used to be, but it can still be a shit culture around the game.

Given you have experience of football and its arseholes I don't know why you are denying the antisemitic aspect upthread. Yes, hooligans will latch onto any excuse but the bigotry is real and it tends not to be just constrained to the football. In Scotland, it seems like the Old Firm rivalry is sustaining some really archaic bigotries whose time should have passed decades ago.

Ok, I'll concede that I didn't explain myself very well, I don't have a lot of time at the moment and I was looking for the texts that were being talked about whilst having a cup of tea.

I was trying to say something along the lines of what you have just said there,

hooligans will latch onto any excuse but the bigotry is real

I think that the hooliganism is there anyway and attaching an antisemitic label to it in this particular context, ie the Israeli government actions and what is happening in Gazza, ignores the reality of football violence.

If Arsenal fans fight Spurs fans, are the Arsenal fans all antisemitic? Or is it just the ones who chant antisemitic slurs? What if they don't chant anything and fight non-jewish Spurs fans? For reasons beyond my knowledge Brighton and Crystal Palace fans attack each other, Palace fans often use homophobic slurs, coz Brighton is full of gayz, innit? Is any attack on a Brighton fan a homophobic attack, or are they just fuckwits looking for a fight?

I suppose what I'm trying to say is again close to what you are saying in that there is a deep rooted culture of this violence in football, your rival losing is just as important, if not more, that your own team winning - you're not allowed to just support Rangers, you have to hate Celtic and vice versa.
For those outside of Scotland, this stuff is so deep rooted that domestic violence increases in Glasgow when these teams play each other, these aren't church-goers who take part in this.

My overall point is that some of these people will be sectarian, some will be homophobes, some will be antisemitic, but these aren't the sole reasons and making them so might be convenient in reinforcing one's point of view, but I think it's a simplistic, face-value mistake.

[Guy Smiley]

What did the actual Amsterdam poiice statement say?

just a couple of posts up above this, boet... just before you repeated the Israeli narrative

no, i just listenening to it, and since i understand dutch, its pretty much what i said, a flagged ripped of, another burned and the taxi incident

The Israeli narrative, we might say, is to completely downplay any part that Israel, the IDF, or Israeli citizens might play in any incident before swinging into playing the victim that must use self defense, regardless of location or borders.

You are doing exactly that here, you're a walking cliche.

[epwc]

Does he need a theme song?

[JM2K6]

I hope you're getting paid for this because if you're doing it for free you're really missing a trick

lol, you're such a bitch

Hey, keep it up - it's very funny. The digital volunteer wing of the IDF

[Calculon]

I heard the police statement, flag ripped down, burned, and taxi destroyed. Not sure it's actually that relevant to a "jew hunt" being organized by Moroccan dutch before these things even happened

The local residents had two days of it before the match. They then organised themselves to fight after the match. That is the timeline.

Not sure you know how any of this works, but it's often not spontaneous as Tichtheid has pointed out, it's organised group violence. Even a kid can see that, Bender pointed out in his commentary that there were leaders in the Maccabi hooligan group he saw. It's not just random violence between random people.

As you've pointed out the Dutch who decided to fight were checking passports after the match. There's been no reports of them going to synagogues or the homes of Amsterdam Jews. They have not continued into the days after the match.

We can call this a pogrom and like something from the holocaust if you like. An odd one, where you also think Ajax thugs attacking pro-Palestinian supporters is funny, but no matter. As I've made clear I don't think it was that, but it's also true if those terms are overused people like me will not pay any price at all, so it's easy for someone like me to just say whatever to avoid any hassle.

pro Palestinian locals and they bussed in people from outside for the "jew hunt" to be ready for when the jews arrived. i never called it a pogrom, the person you linked referred to a "pogrom against the pro Palestine demonstrator". they didn't continue because the police arrested many of them. Numerous reports of local Amsterdam jews feeling unsafe because of these pro Palestinian supporters

[Calculon]

I hope you're getting paid for this because if you're doing it for free you're really missing a trick

lol, you're such a bitch

Hey, keep it up - it's very funny. The digital volunteer wing of the IDF

oh god, it's like a second rate Sefton

[petej]

I've spent around 20 minutes watching videos and reading articles, I can see two posts printed in a Telegraph article, one refers to "Jew Hunt" another refers to "Cancer Jews". Both of those posts are antisemitic.

I'd repeat a question asked of you by, I think, Os. Have you any idea what goes on at football grounds across Europe every weekend and at midweek games? It was vile sectarianism at Scottish games that swore me off football, my sporting first love.

Dutch fans have a reputation for violence, I don't know if it's better or worse now than it was, but across Europe clubs have their "Ultras" and "Headhunters" and other lovely sections of their fan bases. It used to be that thugs from clubs would organise a match up between rival fans, again I don't know if they still do this, but with the messaging apps it would be a lot easier to do it now.

Football is still rife with bigotry, there are still monkey chants at players, homophobic abuse, yes antisemitic abuse, any excuse really. It's better than it used to be, but it can still be a shit culture around the game.

Given you have experience of football and its arseholes I don't know why you are denying the antisemitic aspect upthread. Yes, hooligans will latch onto any excuse but the bigotry is real and it tends not to be just constrained to the football. In Scotland, it seems like the Old Firm rivalry is sustaining some really archaic bigotries whose time should have passed decades ago.

Ok, I'll concede that I didn't explain myself very well, I don't have a lot of time at the moment and I was looking for the texts that were being talked about whilst having a cup of tea.

I was trying to say something along the lines of what you have just said there,

hooligans will latch onto any excuse but the bigotry is real

I think that the hooliganism is there anyway and attaching an antisemitic label to it in this particular context, ie the Israeli government actions and what is happening in Gazza, ignores the reality of football violence.

If Arsenal fans fight Spurs fans, are the Arsenal fans all antisemitic? Or is it just the ones who chant antisemitic slurs? What if they don't chant anything and fight non-jewish Spurs fans? For reasons beyond my knowledge Brighton and Crystal Palace fans attack each other, Palace fans often use homophobic slurs, coz Brighton is full of gayz, innit? Is any attack on a Brighton fan a homophobic attack, or are they just fuckwits looking for a fight?

I suppose what I'm trying to say is again close to what you are saying in that there is a deep rooted culture of this violence in football, your rival losing is just as important, if not more, that your own team winning - you're not allowed to just support Rangers, you have to hate Celtic and vice versa.
For those outside of Scotland, this stuff is so deep rooted that domestic violence increases in Glasgow when these teams play each other, these aren't church-goers who take part in this.

My overall point is that some of these people will be sectarian, some will be homophobes, some will be antisemitic, but these aren't the sole reasons and making them so might be convenient in reinforcing one's point of view, but I think it's a simplistic, face-value mistake.

Good post. I can't remember who told me this but NI had exceptionally low ordinary crime rates as all the crimes were associated with sectarianism. For your standard criminal scumbags an existing conflict is a convenient excuse/justification/cause for their shitty behaviour. Identify the culprits and ban them from travelling and entry to games.

[_Os_]

I heard the police statement, flag ripped down, burned, and taxi destroyed. Not sure it's actually that relevant to a "jew hunt" being organized by Moroccan dutch before these things even happened

The local residents had two days of it before the match. They then organised themselves to fight after the match. That is the timeline.

Not sure you know how any of this works, but it's often not spontaneous as Tichtheid has pointed out, it's organised group violence. Even a kid can see that, Bender pointed out in his commentary that there were leaders in the Maccabi hooligan group he saw. It's not just random violence between random people.

As you've pointed out the Dutch who decided to fight were checking passports after the match. There's been no reports of them going to synagogues or the homes of Amsterdam Jews. They have not continued into the days after the match.

We can call this a pogrom and like something from the holocaust if you like. An odd one, where you also think Ajax thugs attacking pro-Palestinian supporters is funny, but no matter. As I've made clear I don't think it was that, but it's also true if those terms are overused people like me will not pay any price at all, so it's easy for someone like me to just say whatever to avoid any hassle.

pro Palestinian locals and they bussed in people from outside for the "jew hunt" to be ready for when the jews arrived. i never called it a pogrom, the person you linked referred to a "pogrom against the pro Palestine demonstrator". they didn't continue because the police arrested many of them. Numerous reports of local Amsterdam jews feeling unsafe because of these pro Palestinian supporters

Chief, I've already stated in the post you're replying to I'm happy to follow the lead of various politicians who immediately released statements saying it was a pogrom reminiscent of the holocaust. If it makes you happy I'll say the correct words anytime there's any incident with Israeli sports tourists (not hooligans). Then like the politicians who impressed you after the correct words have been said I'll forget about it.

It's a pogrom reminiscent of the holocaust. Happy?

[JM2K6]

lol, you're such a bitch

Hey, keep it up - it's very funny. The digital volunteer wing of the IDF

oh god, it's like a second rate Sefton

Just keep posting and never take a backwards step

[epwc]

Noted limp wristed softie Yoav Gallant: “There’s nothing left in Gaza to do. The major achievements have been achieved,”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-fir ... s-in-gaza/

[Guy Smiley]

[Calculon]

The local residents had two days of it before the match. They then organised themselves to fight after the match. That is the timeline.

Not sure you know how any of this works, but it's often not spontaneous as Tichtheid has pointed out, it's organised group violence. Even a kid can see that, Bender pointed out in his commentary that there were leaders in the Maccabi hooligan group he saw. It's not just random violence between random people.

As you've pointed out the Dutch who decided to fight were checking passports after the match. There's been no reports of them going to synagogues or the homes of Amsterdam Jews. They have not continued into the days after the match.

We can call this a pogrom and like something from the holocaust if you like. An odd one, where you also think Ajax thugs attacking pro-Palestinian supporters is funny, but no matter. As I've made clear I don't think it was that, but it's also true if those terms are overused people like me will not pay any price at all, so it's easy for someone like me to just say whatever to avoid any hassle.

pro Palestinian locals and they bussed in people from outside for the "jew hunt" to be ready for when the jews arrived. i never called it a pogrom, the person you linked referred to a "pogrom against the pro Palestine demonstrator". they didn't continue because the police arrested many of them. Numerous reports of local Amsterdam jews feeling unsafe because of these pro Palestinian supporters

Chief, I've already stated in the post you're replying to I'm happy to follow the lead of various politicians who immediately released statements saying it was a pogrom reminiscent of the holocaust. If it makes you happy I'll say the correct words anytime there's any incident with Israeli sports tourists (not hooligans). Then like the politicians who impressed you after the correct words have been said I'll forget about it.

It's a pogrom reminiscent of the holocaust. Happy?

Don't know wtf you're on about

[Calculon]

Hey, keep it up - it's very funny. The digital volunteer wing of the IDF

oh god, it's like a second rate Sefton

Just keep posting and never take a backwards step

Thanks jmk

[epwc]

"Mazyouna’s face was ‘ripped off’ when a rocket hit her home. Israel has refused to allow her evacuation"

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... evacuation

I feel guilty posting this because it's clearly nowhere near as tragic as the issue with the football thugs in Amsterdam, but dunno, maybe those kids are human too?

[Calculon]

hmmmmm, so much for the protestors and the thousands of Arab American voters in Michigan that handed that state to Trump

https://x.com/elikowaz/status/1856417592027820409

[Calculon]

decent article in the bbc on what happened in amsterdam

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c30p1jmzjrzo

[Guy Smiley]

decent article in the bbc on what happened in amsterdam

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c30p1jmzjrzo

Or you could bypass the mass whitewash and reframing of events carried out by mainstream media outlets like the BBC and read what the photographer who captured the violence unfolding has to say about it...

newsflash, it will challenge your bias


https://zeteo.com/p/exclusive-media-spu ... am-attacks

When chaos erupted in Amsterdam between Maccabi Tel Aviv and Ajax fans, photographer Annet de Graaf watched the violence unfold across the city first-hand.

Her footage of Maccabi fans attacking a Dutch resident went viral, and was picked up by several media outlets, who then spun a different narrative that it was the Israelis being attacked.

Headlines poured in about antisemitic attacks in Amsterdam. But these stories largely overlooked on-camera, blatant, anti-Arab racism from Maccabi supporters.

In an exclusive interview, de Graaf tells Mehdi that outlets like CNN, BBC World News, and the New York Times “told the opposite of what happened in that footage.” She adds that they erased the responsibility of the Maccabi fans behind the attacks because “the truth is inconvenient.”

[Calculon]

maybe read it before you condem it as part of a cover up by the BBC and the rest of the MSM to paint Muslims in a bad light - or whatever other reason you think there is a mass whitewash and reframing of events by the likes of the BBC

[Guy Smiley]

maybe read it before you condem it as part of a cover up by the BBC and the rest of the MSM to paint Muslims in a bad light - or whatever other reason you think there is a mass whitewash and reframing of events by the likes of the BBC

I read it.

Your continued cliche dance is sadly amusing.

[Uncle fester]

Beirut is being levelled.



Edit: should have looked at the date.

[epwc]

But, self defence...

I'm sure they did it in an entirely humane way to ensure no loss of life

[robmatic]

Beirut is being levelled.

This is the aftermath of the Beirut port explosion in 2020. What does that have to do with Israel?

[epwc]

This is a BBC article on the destruction in Southern Lebanon:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgx3zjvjg3o

At this point it matters very little how much of what they are destroying, it's just the fact that they're doing whatever the fuck they want.

[Guy Smiley]

maybe read it before you condem it as part of a cover up by the BBC and the rest of the MSM to paint Muslims in a bad light - or whatever other reason you think there is a mass whitewash and reframing of events by the likes of the BBC

You could do yourself a favour and practise some easy intellectual rigour here...

[epwc]

Truly awful stats on agricultural land, destruction of orchards is not a new tactic but fuck me they've really gone to town here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... rmland-hit

[epwc]

ICC issues arrest warrants, means bugger all I guess:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly2exvx944o

[Slick]

Truly awful stats on agricultural land, destruction of orchards is not a new tactic but fuck me they've really gone to town here:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... rmland-hit

Just been reading about this, it's absolutely horrific. It's horrific enough that humans can up with the idea without actually putting into practice.

[epwc]

The US “fundamentally rejects” a decision by the international criminal court (ICC) to issue arrest warrants for the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, and the country’s former defence minister Yoav Gallant, the White House said.

A statement from a US national security council spokesperson reads:

We remain deeply concerned by the Prosecutor’s rush to seek arrest warrants and the troubling process errors that led to this decision. The United States has been clear that the ICC does not have jurisdiction over this matter.

The US – which is not an ICC member – has previously welcomed ICC war crimes warrants against Vladimir Putin and other Russian officials for atrocities committed in Ukraine. Washington has previously denounced the court’s pursuit of Netanyahu and Gallant, a mixed stance which has exposed the Biden administration to accusations of double standards from many UN members, particularly from the global south.

[Uncle fester]

Not exactly a picnic for Palestinians in Israel itself.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ ... dApp_Other

[Calculon]

Beirut is being levelled.

This is the aftermath of the Beirut port explosion in 2020. What does that have to do with Israel?

Which was ironically caused by Hezbollah

[Uncle fester]

Bit tenuous there Calc.

8 storey building demolished with a bunker buster at 2am. No word on who the actual target was but definitely civilians killed in this.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy8ne9757jdo
And yes, I checked the date this time.

[Sandstorm]

Israel this morning: “We want a ceasefire with Hezbollah”
Israel this afternoon: Conduct 20 + air strikes on central Beirut
Israel this evening: “We have issued a 60 day ceasefire with Hezbollah “

Bunch of cnuts

[epwc]

Do you reckon the IDF have got shares in construction companies? Gonna be a fuck load of reconstruction to do

[Kiwias]

Just in case you were wondering, we can thank the Israel/Hezbollah ceasefire to Trump.

“Everyone is coming to the table because of President Trump,” Florida Rep. Mike Waltz, Trump’s choice for his national security adviser, said in a post on X on Tuesday, shortly before the Israel Cabinet signed off on the agreement. “His resounding victory sent a clear message to the rest of the world that chaos won’t be tolerated. I’m glad to see concrete steps towards deescalation in the Middle East.”

https://apnews.com/article/biden-trump- ... c996a2225f

[epwc]

Another pussy whinging about ethnic cleansing:

Moshe Ya’alon, who served for three decades in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), including in the elite Sayeret Matkal commando unit, and as the military’s chief of staff, also said that he believed Israel was losing its identity as a liberal democracy and becoming a “corrupt and leprous fascist Messianic state.”

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/12/02/midd ... index.html

[epwc]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yx56ep165o

His personal turning point came with an order he could not obey.

“They told us to burn down a house, and I went to my commander and asked him: ‘Why are we doing that?’ And the answers he gave me were just not good enough. I wasn't willing to burn down a house without reasons that make sense, without knowing that this serves a certain military purpose, or any type of purpose. So I said no and left.”