The Official English Rugby Thread

[JM2K6]

Does growing the game mean throwing more money at professional clubs with no fans?

[epwc]

Does growing the game mean throwing more money at professional clubs with no fans?

Getting the games back on FTA would be great

[JM2K6]

Does growing the game mean throwing more money at professional clubs with no fans?

Getting the games back on FTA would be great

Yup. Even just one a week would make a huge difference.

[Sandstorm]

Does growing the game mean throwing more money at professional clubs with no fans?

Getting the games back on FTA would be great

Yup. Even just one a week would make a huge difference.

Sarries no doubt

[Torquemada 1420]

All 12 Championship clubs join revolt over RFU bonus scandal

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2024/ ... rfu-bonus/

Hardly surprising as they nhave been repeatedly lied to and had their funding slashed to a pittance whilst the RFU are throwing £250M at the Professional Game Board over the next few years.
Investing in growing the game my arse!

It's depressing to see rugby follow the well trodden paths of football, the Olympics, F1 etc.

[Paddington Bear]

Reports that Tom Voyce has drowned fording a river near Alnwick. A fine player in his time, RIP

[Big D]

Reports that Tom Voyce has drowned fording a river near Alnwick. A fine player in his time, RIP

Such a shame. 43 with most of his adult life ahead of him

[SaintK]

Quins have sorted Smith's contract for the next 4 years.

England fly-half Marcus Smith has signed a new contract with Harlequins keeping him at the club until at least 2028.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-unio ... 20qepv29o

[Kawazaki]

Quins have sorted Smith's contract for the next 4 years.

England fly-half Marcus Smith has signed a new contract with Harlequins keeping him at the club until at least 2028.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-unio ... 20qepv29o

They'll need to find a massive crashball 12 to carry him.

[SaintK]

Bollocks!!!!
George Furbank has broken his arm and is more than likely ggoing to miss the 6N
That's shit news for Saints though they do have Hendy to step up.
Even shitter news for England as it means that Steward will probably take his place.

[JM2K6]

Saw some Tigers fans claim the new laws are perfect for Steward and he's the best option for England now. Goldfish memories.

[Hal Jordan]

As long as it's not Marcus Smith.

[JM2K6]

Hah

When does Tyrone Green qualify again?

Carpenter should be the next option, or failing that, Freeman. Some talk about Hendy but it's way too soon for him I think, and Josh Hodge makes Mike Brown look positively generous with the ball. With Nick David not having a great season there aren't many other viable options who look like they could step up

[Kawazaki]

Elliot Daly has been in great form. A genuine second receiver as well.

It's Borthwick though so he'll pick Steward in a heartbeat who will catch 3 out of 5, the commentators will think he's brilliant, and they'll ignore him missing tackles because he's not quick enough to be in the right place he needs to be to even attempt the tackle in the first place.

[Paddington Bear]

Potentially it is possible to read too much into it, but Hodge looked all at sea in defence vs Toulouse throughout

[SaintK]

Elliot Daly has been in great form. A genuine second receiver as well.

It's Borthwick though so he'll pick Steward in a heartbeat who will catch 3 out of 5, the commentators will think he's brilliant, and they'll ignore him missing tackles because he's not quick enough to be in the right place he needs to be to even attempt the tackle in the first place.

Yep Steward it will be though my prefence would be Carpenter.
Daly as a last resort resort as he won't be at the next RWC

[dpedin]

Elliot Daly has been in great form. A genuine second receiver as well.

It's Borthwick though so he'll pick Steward in a heartbeat who will catch 3 out of 5, the commentators will think he's brilliant, and they'll ignore him missing tackles because he's not quick enough to be in the right place he needs to be to even attempt the tackle in the first place.

Yep Steward it will be though my prefence would be Carpenter.
Daly as a last resort resort as he won't be at the next RWC

Daly is a solid FB with a good boot and a bit of pace. Steward's lack of pace will be badly exposed again if selected for the 6Ns and he will be targeted relentlessly. Smith isnt a FB and should be considered there, he is your starting 10 surely? Problem for England is your midfield, Slade and Lawrence have been pretty porous defensively and the failed rush defence in recent games meant your FB had a lot of ground to cover which Steward just cant do. For me choice of FB is inextricably linked to choice of centres and your defensive strategy - sticking with Slade - Lawrence and a rush defence requires a very mobile and fast FB to cover the kicks behind and be 2nd line defender if centre miss tackles, which they do!

[inactionman]

Henry Arundell to Bath next season


https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... on/1527501

Good news for both Bath and England.

[SaintK]

Elliot Daly has been in great form. A genuine second receiver as well.

It's Borthwick though so he'll pick Steward in a heartbeat who will catch 3 out of 5, the commentators will think he's brilliant, and they'll ignore him missing tackles because he's not quick enough to be in the right place he needs to be to even attempt the tackle in the first place.

Yep Steward it will be though my prefence would be Carpenter.
Daly as a last resort resort as he won't be at the next RWC

Daly is a solid FB with a good boot and a bit of pace. Steward's lack of pace will be badly exposed again if selected for the 6Ns and he will be targeted relentlessly. Smith isnt a FB and should be considered there, he is your starting 10 surely? Problem for England is your midfield, Slade and Lawrence have been pretty porous defensively and the failed rush defence in recent games meant your FB had a lot of ground to cover which Steward just cant do. For me choice of FB is inextricably linked to choice of centres and your defensive strategy - sticking with Slade - Lawrence and a rush defence requires a very mobile and fast FB to cover the kicks behind and be 2nd line defender if centre miss tackles, which they do!

I'd be happy with either Smith starting at 10. Can't blame Lawrence in midfield as he's playing out of position to accomodate Slade who I think is main issue in defence as he just can't lead it well. More than happy to see Carpenter ahead of Steward though Hodge and Hendy are probably the future there but not ready yet.
Don't think we'll see much improveement in the 6N so it could be shit or bust for Borthwick

[SaintK]

Henry Arundell to Bath next season


https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... on/1527501

Good news for both Bath and England.

Good news indeed. THough he's going to have to up his game from what I've seen of him (admittedly not an awful lot) to get ahead of M F-W, Sleightholme and Roebuck

[Kawazaki]

Henry Arundell to Bath next season


https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... on/1527501

Good news for both Bath and England.

Good news indeed. THough he's going to have to up his game from what I've seen of him (admittedly not an awful lot) to get ahead of M F-W, Sleightholme and Roebuck

Yep. He has extraordinary physical gifts apparently. He needs to up his mental capacity.

[inactionman]

Henry Arundell to Bath next season


https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... on/1527501

Good news for both Bath and England.

Good news indeed. THough he's going to have to up his game from what I've seen of him (admittedly not an awful lot) to get ahead of M F-W, Sleightholme and Roebuck

Yep, some good competition in there.

Interested where he features, Bath are a bit light at 15 - hence Wilie La Roux rumours - so make sense to be interested in someone who can play across back 3

I'm not sure if it's a done deal yet, although the French article seems to imply it's looking a goer.

[SaintK]

Interesting/worrying?

[Torquemada 1420]

So, the tax payer has subsidised the 3 bust clubs to the tune of £30m?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... x9y1e487yo

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Quins have sorted Smith's contract for the next 4 years.

England fly-half Marcus Smith has signed a new contract with Harlequins keeping him at the club until at least 2028.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-unio ... 20qepv29o

They'll need to find a massive crashball 12 to carry him.

He's certainly liked having a carrying option outside, but absent that he'd still be one of the better 10s in the world, and they tend to lead rather than need carrying

[duke]

So, the tax payer has subsidised the 3 bust clubs to the tune of £30m?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... x9y1e487yo

And the £1.6billion that went elsewhere? There were problems everywhere with dealing with the effects of Covid, not just with rugby clubs

[JM2K6]

Quins have sorted Smith's contract for the next 4 years.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-unio ... 20qepv29o

They'll need to find a massive crashball 12 to carry him.

He's certainly liked having a carrying option outside, but absent that he'd still be one of the better 10s in the world, and they tend to lead rather than need carrying

You'd never catch Scotland/France/Ireland/South Africa/NZ playing an absolute unit in the centres hey

[Tichtheid]

They'll need to find a massive crashball 12 to carry him.

He's certainly liked having a carrying option outside, but absent that he'd still be one of the better 10s in the world, and they tend to lead rather than need carrying

You'd never catch Scotland/France/Ireland/South Africa/NZ playing an absolute unit in the centres hey

Ahem, if I may - Scotland's starting 12 is able to carry but his main threat is acting as first receiver and giving Finn more time when he receives the ball in the 12 channel. Sione's kicking game is also top notch. Our second 12 is Cam Redpath and he's no bruiser.

Moefana isn't that big for France, Costes isn't a huge guy either - I think/hope rugby is moving on from huge crash ball centres. I don't think Marcus Smith needs someone like he had at Quins to be one of the top 10s in the world.

[JM2K6]

He's certainly liked having a carrying option outside, but absent that he'd still be one of the better 10s in the world, and they tend to lead rather than need carrying

You'd never catch Scotland/France/Ireland/South Africa/NZ playing an absolute unit in the centres hey

Ahem, if I may - Scotland's starting 12 is able to carry but his main threat is acting as first receiver and giving Finn more time when he receives the ball in the 12 channel. Sione's kicking game is also top notch. Our second 12 is Cam Redpath and he's no bruiser.

Moefana isn't that big for France, Costes isn't a huge guy either - I think/hope rugby is moving on from huge crash ball centres. I don't think Marcus Smith needs someone like he had at Quins to be one of the top 10s in the world.

Sione is also a huge carrier, though. He makes serious yards in heavy traffic and is built like a brick shithouse. Likewise, Jordie Barrett is a ball player first but he's also a big, big lump of a guy who can hit a hard line. Having a player like that is critical, regardless of what their primary role is. The fact that both of these guys (like Fickou) are also superb ball players and top tier defenders is what makes them world class.

Moefana is a bit taller than Ollie Lawrence and the same weight, and France relied on Danty for a very long time. It's not like Fickou isn't bigger than any of our centres either.

Hell, even the Aussies dwarf England at the moment; Ikitau + Suaaili is more beef than we were able to put out, and Kerevi's still a unit.

No successful team picks a pairing that doesn't have a top tier carrier. I'd say England has one of the worst in Lawrence, mostly because it's not his natural game - he's a 13 who prefers playing wide rather than being the guy thrown up the middle all the time - and because he's not actually huge (quite a lot shorter than Redpath and only a bit heavier), just very powerful for his size, squat, and direct. England have been trying to make up for it with power wings and the occasional big 15, but with other sides also having those, it's a real deficit for England regardless of who's playing 10. And that's one reason why I'd rather see Freeman given some chances at 13 if we're going to persist with Lawrence at 12, though I think that dream is dead now that we've lost a genuine playmaking 15 to injury.

[Tichtheid]

You'd never catch Scotland/France/Ireland/South Africa/NZ playing an absolute unit in the centres hey

Ahem, if I may - Scotland's starting 12 is able to carry but his main threat is acting as first receiver and giving Finn more time when he receives the ball in the 12 channel. Sione's kicking game is also top notch. Our second 12 is Cam Redpath and he's no bruiser.

Moefana isn't that big for France, Costes isn't a huge guy either - I think/hope rugby is moving on from huge crash ball centres. I don't think Marcus Smith needs someone like he had at Quins to be one of the top 10s in the world.

Sione is also a huge carrier, though. He makes serious yards in heavy traffic and is built like a brick shithouse. Likewise, Jordie Barrett is a ball player first but he's also a big, big lump of a guy who can hit a hard line. Having a player like that is critical, regardless of what their primary role is. The fact that both of these guys (like Fickou) are also superb ball players and top tier defenders is what makes them world class.

Moefana is a bit taller than Ollie Lawrence and the same weight, and France relied on Danty for a very long time. It's not like Fickou isn't bigger than any of our centres either.

Hell, even the Aussies dwarf England at the moment; Ikitau + Suaaili is more beef than we were able to put out, and Kerevi's still a unit.

No successful team picks a pairing that doesn't have a top tier carrier. I'd say England has one of the worst in Lawrence, mostly because it's not his natural game - he's a 13 who prefers playing wide rather than being the guy thrown up the middle all the time - and because he's not actually huge (quite a lot shorter than Redpath and only a bit heavier), just very powerful for his size, squat, and direct. England have been trying to make up for it with power wings and the occasional big 15, but with other sides also having those, it's a real deficit for England regardless of who's playing 10. And that's one reason why I'd rather see Freeman given some chances at 13 if we're going to persist with Lawrence at 12, though I think that dream is dead now that we've lost a genuine playmaking 15 to injury.

I usually watch all the Gallagher Prem games but I haven't this season so I can't say who is hot and who is not, but over the course of a few seasons I've always liked the look of Fraser Dingwall.

Speaking of Saints, Hutchinson is another vying for the 12 shirt in Scotland, but again he is not a big bosher.

[Oxbow]

I usually watch all the Gallagher Prem games but I haven't this season so I can't say who is hot and who is not, but over the course of a few seasons I've always liked the look of Fraser Dingwall.

Speaking of Saints, Hutchinson is another vying for the 12 shirt in Scotland, but again he is not a big bosher.

Slight Saints bias maybe, but Fraser Dingwall is a very good rugby player. As I've said before, he's not flashy, he just does everything well. He also seems to be able to switch seamlessly between 12 and 13 depending on who he's playing with at Saints. Whether he's international class or not can only be ascertained by him having an extended run in the side, but that seems unlikely with Borthwick clinging ever-tighter onto his Slade security blanket.

[SaintK]

I usually watch all the Gallagher Prem games but I haven't this season so I can't say who is hot and who is not, but over the course of a few seasons I've always liked the look of Fraser Dingwall.

Speaking of Saints, Hutchinson is another vying for the 12 shirt in Scotland, but again he is not a big bosher.

Slight Saints bias maybe, but Fraser Dingwall is a very good rugby player. As I've said before, he's not flashy, he just does everything well. He also seems to be able to switch seamlessly between 12 and 13 depending on who he's playing with at Saints. Whether he's international class or not can only be ascertained by him having an extended run in the side, but that seems unlikely with Borthwick clinging ever-tighter onto his Slade security blanket.

I'm biased as well but you are spot on, he is an excellent player and brings out the best from his fellow centre no matter the number on his back
I also like the way Lichfield is developing and he signed a long term contract this week.

[inactionman]

I usually watch all the Gallagher Prem games but I haven't this season so I can't say who is hot and who is not, but over the course of a few seasons I've always liked the look of Fraser Dingwall.

Speaking of Saints, Hutchinson is another vying for the 12 shirt in Scotland, but again he is not a big bosher.

Slight Saints bias maybe, but Fraser Dingwall is a very good rugby player. As I've said before, he's not flashy, he just does everything well. He also seems to be able to switch seamlessly between 12 and 13 depending on who he's playing with at Saints. Whether he's international class or not can only be ascertained by him having an extended run in the side, but that seems unlikely with Borthwick clinging ever-tighter onto his Slade security blanket.

Didn't he captain the A team?

Captaining the team to a decent win against an Australian A side would seem a sensible springboard into a first 23.

Mind you, it's going to be tricky to get in as a back with a 6-2 bench, as there's only one spot open for a non-scrum half. Although noting Dingwall can cover 12 and 13 as well.

[petej]

Dingwall is a bit like Aaron mauger in that he is not flash but makes other players look better. I would rather play him as the steady solid enabling player than playing Slade.

[SaintK]

I usually watch all the Gallagher Prem games but I haven't this season so I can't say who is hot and who is not, but over the course of a few seasons I've always liked the look of Fraser Dingwall.

Speaking of Saints, Hutchinson is another vying for the 12 shirt in Scotland, but again he is not a big bosher.

Slight Saints bias maybe, but Fraser Dingwall is a very good rugby player. As I've said before, he's not flashy, he just does everything well. He also seems to be able to switch seamlessly between 12 and 13 depending on who he's playing with at Saints. Whether he's international class or not can only be ascertained by him having an extended run in the side, but that seems unlikely with Borthwick clinging ever-tighter onto his Slade security blanket.

Didn't he captain the A team?

Captaining the team to a decent win against an Australian A side would seem a sensible springboard into a first 23.

Mind you, it's going to be tricky to get in as a back with a 6-2 bench, as there's only one spot open for a non-scrum half. Although noting Dingwall can cover 12 and 13 as well.

At some stage he has captained every international team at age group he's played for as well as his club.

[SaintK]

So Ilube has stepped down presumably before he was pushed next week?
Sweeney's position looking increasingly untenable now.

Tom Ilube has stepped down as Rugby Football Union chairman, pre-empting the possibility of a grassroots rebellion forcing him out over the scale of the organisation's executive bonuses.
Ilube, who was appointed in August 2021, faced the possibility of a vote of no-confidence in his leadership as a motion to sack him gathered support among England's community clubs.
The RFU chairman is the only permanent member of the body's remuneration committee which oversees the pay awarded to all employees on a basic salary of more than £180,000 a year.
"I have decided to step down from my role as chair of the RFU as recent events have become a distraction from the game but will stay on to ensure a smooth transition to a new chair as soon as one is in place," said Ilube.

[dpedin]

Ahem, if I may - Scotland's starting 12 is able to carry but his main threat is acting as first receiver and giving Finn more time when he receives the ball in the 12 channel. Sione's kicking game is also top notch. Our second 12 is Cam Redpath and he's no bruiser.

Moefana isn't that big for France, Costes isn't a huge guy either - I think/hope rugby is moving on from huge crash ball centres. I don't think Marcus Smith needs someone like he had at Quins to be one of the top 10s in the world.

Sione is also a huge carrier, though. He makes serious yards in heavy traffic and is built like a brick shithouse. Likewise, Jordie Barrett is a ball player first but he's also a big, big lump of a guy who can hit a hard line. Having a player like that is critical, regardless of what their primary role is. The fact that both of these guys (like Fickou) are also superb ball players and top tier defenders is what makes them world class.

Moefana is a bit taller than Ollie Lawrence and the same weight, and France relied on Danty for a very long time. It's not like Fickou isn't bigger than any of our centres either.

Hell, even the Aussies dwarf England at the moment; Ikitau + Suaaili is more beef than we were able to put out, and Kerevi's still a unit.

No successful team picks a pairing that doesn't have a top tier carrier. I'd say England has one of the worst in Lawrence, mostly because it's not his natural game - he's a 13 who prefers playing wide rather than being the guy thrown up the middle all the time - and because he's not actually huge (quite a lot shorter than Redpath and only a bit heavier), just very powerful for his size, squat, and direct. England have been trying to make up for it with power wings and the occasional big 15, but with other sides also having those, it's a real deficit for England regardless of who's playing 10. And that's one reason why I'd rather see Freeman given some chances at 13 if we're going to persist with Lawrence at 12, though I think that dream is dead now that we've lost a genuine playmaking 15 to injury.

I usually watch all the Gallagher Prem games but I haven't this season so I can't say who is hot and who is not, but over the course of a few seasons I've always liked the look of Fraser Dingwall.

Speaking of Saints, Hutchinson is another vying for the 12 shirt in Scotland, but again he is not a big bosher.

Sione is listed as 5'10" and 103kg so not huge compared to some centres and about the same as Lawrence. However he runs with real intent and is very good at targeting the right defender and the right shoulder in attack. Unlike many he accelerates into the tackle area and gets into a low profile before contact. I would argue he isnt a huge centre but has the aggression and technique to look like he is?

[Kawazaki]

No successful team picks a pairing that doesn't have a top tier carrier.

Tompkins and Lozowski won a premiership.

[sockwithaticket]

Dingwall is a bit like Aaron mauger in that he is not flash but makes other players look better. I would rather play him as the steady solid enabling player than playing Slade.

We need what he offers 100% more than whatever it is Slade is supposedly bringing to the party.

I don't accept that 2 caps in a team that was collectively playing dreadfully this 6N is anywhere near enough of a fair go to decide he's not up to it at the top level.

[Tichtheid]

Fasogbon looked impressive in the U20s, he looks equally impressive at Premiership level