The Scottish Politics Thread

[Biffer]

Problem is we’re not prepared to invest in these. We have to raise tens of billions to improve rail infrastructure and that’s going to be public money.

How do you convince people to do that? The private sector has had thirty years of access and haven’t.

North to Aberdeen and Inverness we need a line that doesn’t stop at every house, in other words a line direct from Dunfermline to Perth via Kinross. And more dual line sections north of Perth for Inverness.

WRT price, we need to stop subsidising airlines and put tax on aviation fuel. But we can’t do that in isolation.

[inactionman]

I'd settle for reasonable fares, a reliable service and not having to go north to go south whilst passing the station I started from on the way.

The faster trains from Edinburgh to London will make this last point worse.

Agree again, I was just thinking more of getting business travel to London off flights

Timewise, I always thought that rail and flights between Edinburgh and London were broadly similar anyway once you factor in schlepping out to the airport and then making your way into central London. I feel that with business travel there is a prestige factor in play though: there is a breed of manager who feel important because they "had to fly to London this week".

Flybe used to do a really handy flights into London City, but now they've gone under it's just BA who run that route - Flybe were dirt cheap at weekends when there weren't any city slickers looking to travel. My family are now all out east so it was perfect for me.

Aside from London city, all the other London airports are massive pains in the arse as they're nowhere near London.

Convenience-wise, I'd take London City in preference to the train, I'd take the train ahead of anything else.

LNER do some decent family deals as well, which makes the train more attractive if I'm taking the kids.

[TheNatalShark]

The prices are eye watering though, unless you can book 3 months in advance. I had a last minute trip to London last year and the cheapest train was just under £300.

London - Edinburgh Overnight Flixbus this week is like £50-66. Can still get some sub £40 on Megabus and National Express.

Last night could book a flight this morning from Heathrow at £54. Overnight Lumo was £100 something. Flight of course needs to add on for luggage, puts same ballpark

Something been weird about London/Edinburgh pricing since covid to me.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Problem is we’re not prepared to invest in these. We have to raise tens of billions to improve rail infrastructure and that’s going to be public money.

How do you convince people to do that? The private sector has had thirty years of access and haven’t.

North to Aberdeen and Inverness we need a line that doesn’t stop at every house, in other words a line direct from Dunfermline to Perth via Kinross. And more dual line sections north of Perth for Inverness.

WRT price, we need to stop subsidising airlines and put tax on aviation fuel. But we can’t do that in isolation.

Completely agree wrt aviation - VAT on tickets or fuel, and/or some kind of frequently flyer/business class levy too. But public opinion would be massively against it (fits in with the "Climate Change why don't we care thread"), everyone needs their cheap holiday in the sun.

A train line from Dunfermline to Perth would be very helpful, but unfortunately they built the M90 past Glenfarg over the route of the old line, so it would be a nightmare to reinstate.

For trips to Aberdeen (in-laws live up that way) we've been using the Ember bus quite a bit - cheaper than the train and less stressful than driving. And the wifi works. And it's electric.

[inactionman]

Problem is we’re not prepared to invest in these. We have to raise tens of billions to improve rail infrastructure and that’s going to be public money.

How do you convince people to do that? The private sector has had thirty years of access and haven’t.

North to Aberdeen and Inverness we need a line that doesn’t stop at every house, in other words a line direct from Dunfermline to Perth via Kinross. And more dual line sections north of Perth for Inverness.

WRT price, we need to stop subsidising airlines and put tax on aviation fuel. But we can’t do that in isolation.

Completely agree wrt aviation - VAT on tickets or fuel, and/or some kind of frequently flyer/business class levy too. But public opinion would be massively against it (fits in with the "Climate Change why don't we care thread"), everyone needs their cheap holiday in the sun.

A train line from Dunfermline to Perth would be very helpful, but unfortunately they built the M90 past Glenfarg over the route of the old line, so it would be a nightmare to reinstate.

For trips to Aberdeen (in-laws live up that way) we've been using the Ember bus quite a bit - cheaper than the train and less stressful than driving. And the wifi works. And it's electric.

Would a tax on aviation fuel /levy for purely UK internal flights be viable, as a UK unilateral measure? I'm sure I've heard it suggested before. It wouldn't even need to be that onerous, just enough to tip balance towards train, especially if it subsidised train investment for a better and ideally cheaper service.

It would make sense to address internal-only flights differently to anything international, as there is a clear alternative for UK internal which isn't always the case for international - ignoring whether international travel is always actually necessary. It's also more within the gift of the UK government, which isn't the case internationally. No point taxing London-JFK if people just go Paris-JFK instead.

International air travel is here to stay for the foreseeable, I'm afraid, unless we are happy to curtail people's choice to travel which is a very, very difficult sell. I've mentioned before but I wanted to go to Norway and fancied a ferry, only to find out the route was cut a few years back. There is no reasonable alternative to flying.

I had no idea there was no trainline from Dunfermline to Perth - I've not yet had call to try to travel by train that way. That just seems madness. I've not gone up to Aberdeen but I used to have to head to Dundee for work by train, so I feel Slick's pain.

[inactionman]

Problem is we’re not prepared to invest in these. We have to raise tens of billions to improve rail infrastructure and that’s going to be public money.

How do you convince people to do that? The private sector has had thirty years of access and haven’t.

North to Aberdeen and Inverness we need a line that doesn’t stop at every house, in other words a line direct from Dunfermline to Perth via Kinross. And more dual line sections north of Perth for Inverness.

WRT price, we need to stop subsidising airlines and put tax on aviation fuel. But we can’t do that in isolation.

Completely agree wrt aviation - VAT on tickets or fuel, and/or some kind of frequently flyer/business class levy too. But public opinion would be massively against it (fits in with the "Climate Change why don't we care thread"), everyone needs their cheap holiday in the sun.

A train line from Dunfermline to Perth would be very helpful, but unfortunately they built the M90 past Glenfarg over the route of the old line, so it would be a nightmare to reinstate.

For trips to Aberdeen (in-laws live up that way) we've been using the Ember bus quite a bit - cheaper than the train and less stressful than driving. And the wifi works. And it's electric.

I've also just had a squiz at that Ember bus as it's a new one on me - looks a bargain, just over £30 return to Aberdeen, and no peak fare shenanigans.

[inactionman]

I also noticed this:

A new online train ticket retailer backed by the UK government is to be created, the Department for Transport (DfT) has announced, with the aim of simplifying the process of buying tickets from different rail operators.

However, the service will only be available once Great British Railways (GBR) has been established, which is not expected to take place until late 2026 at the earliest.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... h-railways

Isn't this something that the National Rail website could have done?

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Problem is we’re not prepared to invest in these. We have to raise tens of billions to improve rail infrastructure and that’s going to be public money.

How do you convince people to do that? The private sector has had thirty years of access and haven’t.

North to Aberdeen and Inverness we need a line that doesn’t stop at every house, in other words a line direct from Dunfermline to Perth via Kinross. And more dual line sections north of Perth for Inverness.

WRT price, we need to stop subsidising airlines and put tax on aviation fuel. But we can’t do that in isolation.

Completely agree wrt aviation - VAT on tickets or fuel, and/or some kind of frequently flyer/business class levy too. But public opinion would be massively against it (fits in with the "Climate Change why don't we care thread"), everyone needs their cheap holiday in the sun.

A train line from Dunfermline to Perth would be very helpful, but unfortunately they built the M90 past Glenfarg over the route of the old line, so it would be a nightmare to reinstate.

For trips to Aberdeen (in-laws live up that way) we've been using the Ember bus quite a bit - cheaper than the train and less stressful than driving. And the wifi works. And it's electric.

I've also just had a squiz at that Ember bus as it's a new one on me - looks a bargain, just over £30 return to Aberdeen, and no peak fare shenanigans.

Not only are Ember better value than, say Stagecoach, but they also get a thumbs up from me for some of their policies too - Mrs S/Lt P uses them to commute quite a bit, and several times they're refunded her ticket because the bus was late in to Edinburgh due to traffic (i.e. nothing they could have done about it, but they offered a refund anyway). Can you imagine airlines offering refunds for delays that were out of their control?

[Paddington Bear]

I also noticed this:

A new online train ticket retailer backed by the UK government is to be created, the Department for Transport (DfT) has announced, with the aim of simplifying the process of buying tickets from different rail operators.

However, the service will only be available once Great British Railways (GBR) has been established, which is not expected to take place until late 2026 at the earliest.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... h-railways

Isn't this something that the National Rail website could have done?

The Train Line essentially have done it, just a ludicrously fragmented system which manages to combine a lot of the worst traits of the public and private sectors

[Biffer]

Problem is we’re not prepared to invest in these. We have to raise tens of billions to improve rail infrastructure and that’s going to be public money.

How do you convince people to do that? The private sector has had thirty years of access and haven’t.

North to Aberdeen and Inverness we need a line that doesn’t stop at every house, in other words a line direct from Dunfermline to Perth via Kinross. And more dual line sections north of Perth for Inverness.

WRT price, we need to stop subsidising airlines and put tax on aviation fuel. But we can’t do that in isolation.

Completely agree wrt aviation - VAT on tickets or fuel, and/or some kind of frequently flyer/business class levy too. But public opinion would be massively against it (fits in with the "Climate Change why don't we care thread"), everyone needs their cheap holiday in the sun.

A train line from Dunfermline to Perth would be very helpful, but unfortunately they built the M90 past Glenfarg over the route of the old line, so it would be a nightmare to reinstate.

For trips to Aberdeen (in-laws live up that way) we've been using the Ember bus quite a bit - cheaper than the train and less stressful than driving. And the wifi works. And it's electric.

Would a tax on aviation fuel /levy for purely UK internal flights be viable, as a UK unilateral measure? I'm sure I've heard it suggested before. It wouldn't even need to be that onerous, just enough to tip balance towards train, especially if it subsidised train investment for a better and ideally cheaper service.

It would make sense to address internal-only flights differently to anything international, as there is a clear alternative for UK internal which isn't always the case for international - ignoring whether international travel is always actually necessary. It's also more within the gift of the UK government, which isn't the case internationally. No point taxing London-JFK if people just go Paris-JFK instead.

International air travel is here to stay for the foreseeable, I'm afraid, unless we are happy to curtail people's choice to travel which is a very, very difficult sell. I've mentioned before but I wanted to go to Norway and fancied a ferry, only to find out the route was cut a few years back. There is no reasonable alternative to flying.

I had no idea there was no trainline from Dunfermline to Perth - I've not yet had call to try to travel by train that way. That just seems madness. I've not gone up to Aberdeen but I used to have to head to Dundee for work by train, so I feel Slick's pain.

Not really. They'd make sure they were filled up elsewhere.

The French government only gave Air France/KLM money during the pandemic in return for them not flying routes that are covered by TGV.

You get from Inverkeithing to Perth on the train by heading east to Kirkcaldy, and then up to Ladybank before heading west again and up to Perth. It takes as long to get from Edinburgh to Perth on the train as it does on the bus, or longer. It's nonsense and it's one of the reasons the Inverness and Aberdeen trains take so long.

[robmatic]

I also noticed this:

A new online train ticket retailer backed by the UK government is to be created, the Department for Transport (DfT) has announced, with the aim of simplifying the process of buying tickets from different rail operators.

However, the service will only be available once Great British Railways (GBR) has been established, which is not expected to take place until late 2026 at the earliest.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... h-railways

Isn't this something that the National Rail website could have done?

The Train Line essentially have done it, just a ludicrously fragmented system which manages to combine a lot of the worst traits of the public and private sectors

Yeah, I don't understand why we need a new online retailer when that part of the problem is already solved. It is the underlying combinations of policies and prices that are problematic.

[inactionman]

Completely agree wrt aviation - VAT on tickets or fuel, and/or some kind of frequently flyer/business class levy too. But public opinion would be massively against it (fits in with the "Climate Change why don't we care thread"), everyone needs their cheap holiday in the sun.

A train line from Dunfermline to Perth would be very helpful, but unfortunately they built the M90 past Glenfarg over the route of the old line, so it would be a nightmare to reinstate.

For trips to Aberdeen (in-laws live up that way) we've been using the Ember bus quite a bit - cheaper than the train and less stressful than driving. And the wifi works. And it's electric.

Would a tax on aviation fuel /levy for purely UK internal flights be viable, as a UK unilateral measure? I'm sure I've heard it suggested before. It wouldn't even need to be that onerous, just enough to tip balance towards train, especially if it subsidised train investment for a better and ideally cheaper service.

It would make sense to address internal-only flights differently to anything international, as there is a clear alternative for UK internal which isn't always the case for international - ignoring whether international travel is always actually necessary. It's also more within the gift of the UK government, which isn't the case internationally. No point taxing London-JFK if people just go Paris-JFK instead.

International air travel is here to stay for the foreseeable, I'm afraid, unless we are happy to curtail people's choice to travel which is a very, very difficult sell. I've mentioned before but I wanted to go to Norway and fancied a ferry, only to find out the route was cut a few years back. There is no reasonable alternative to flying.

I had no idea there was no trainline from Dunfermline to Perth - I've not yet had call to try to travel by train that way. That just seems madness. I've not gone up to Aberdeen but I used to have to head to Dundee for work by train, so I feel Slick's pain.

Not really. They'd make sure they were filled up elsewhere.

The French government only gave Air France/KLM money during the pandemic in return for them not flying routes that are covered by TGV.

You get from Inverkeithing to Perth on the train by heading east to Kirkcaldy, and then up to Ladybank before heading west again and up to Perth. It takes as long to get from Edinburgh to Perth on the train as it does on the bus, or longer. It's nonsense and it's one of the reasons the Inverness and Aberdeen trains take so long.

There's a maximum amount of fuel an aircraft can carry and land with, so they can't really hold multiple flights of fuel. If they're going Edinburgh-London they'll take on fuel in Edinburgh, even if they may have flown into Edinburgh from abroad.

If that proves ineffective there's little reason I can see why there isn't an airport levy on UK internal flights. Bloody Norwich 'International' made me stump up a tenner at the gate as an airport improvement levy - at least I could see the money was sorely needed - so we could do similar. Or just add to ticket price, or follow the French approach and make any commercial benefits, subsidies, considerations and all else contingent upon not competing with trains. It just feels like it's in the direct gift of the UK to do this.

It would also have the additional benefit of winding up Michael O'Leary.

The lack of direct train line from the Forth bridge to Perth is bonkers. I've had a look at the rail maps on Scotrail (can't link to images as they're pdf download) and there appears to be a route via Falkirk and Stirling, which is miles out of the way - it's really going North-East to jump on the line from Glasgow. Assume this is another impact of Beeching?

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/plan-your-journey/our-routes

[inactionman]

I also noticed this:

A new online train ticket retailer backed by the UK government is to be created, the Department for Transport (DfT) has announced, with the aim of simplifying the process of buying tickets from different rail operators.

However, the service will only be available once Great British Railways (GBR) has been established, which is not expected to take place until late 2026 at the earliest.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... h-railways

Isn't this something that the National Rail website could have done?

The Train Line essentially have done it, just a ludicrously fragmented system which manages to combine a lot of the worst traits of the public and private sectors

They're a private company who charge fees, and I'm never sure they get the best bang for buck - I stopped booking them when I could get better fares directly, although they were useful in planning.

I can see the need for a public service which truly looks for the lowest cost and most appropriate route and fare, but I can't see why National Rail can't do this already.

As for your broader point (as also raised by robmatic) yep, having a less mental system would actually be the most effective solution.

[Paddington Bear]

I also noticed this:



https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... h-railways

Isn't this something that the National Rail website could have done?

The Train Line essentially have done it, just a ludicrously fragmented system which manages to combine a lot of the worst traits of the public and private sectors

They're a private company who charge fees, and I'm never sure they get the best bang for buck - I stopped booking them when I could get better fares directly, although they were useful in planning.

I can see the need for a public service which truly looks for the lowest cost and most appropriate route and fare, but I can't see why National Rail can't do this already.

As for your broader point (as also raised by robmatic) yep, having a less mental system would actually be the most effective solution.

If you’re not fussed about potentially having to move seats during a journey, use trainsplit.com. I’ve often saved 50% + off the marketed fare

[inactionman]

The Train Line essentially have done it, just a ludicrously fragmented system which manages to combine a lot of the worst traits of the public and private sectors

They're a private company who charge fees, and I'm never sure they get the best bang for buck - I stopped booking them when I could get better fares directly, although they were useful in planning.

I can see the need for a public service which truly looks for the lowest cost and most appropriate route and fare, but I can't see why National Rail can't do this already.

As for your broader point (as also raised by robmatic) yep, having a less mental system would actually be the most effective solution.

If you’re not fussed about potentially having to move seats during a journey, use trainsplit.com. I’ve often saved 50% + off the marketed fare

I used that in the past, I think it was subject to some legal challenge but was judged as above-board?

Horrifically it used to work on a single train line with a single provider. In some circumstances it was cheaper to get a single from Bath to Didcot Parkway and a single from Didcot Parkway to Paddington on the exact same train than a single from Bath to Paddington. A colleague of mine was directed to leave the train at Didcot when doing this, so he walked out, along the carriage and back in. God knows what the conductor was thinking, or how we ended up with this situation. It's to do with the Bath-Didcot leg being peak time and the Didcot-London being off-peak.
What a fiasco.

[Slick]

Agree again, I was just thinking more of getting business travel to London off flights

The prices are eye watering though, unless you can book 3 months in advance. I had a last minute trip to London last year and the cheapest train was just under £300.

I’ve never paid more than £100 return London - Edinburgh. Glasgow tends to be more expensive and of course a longer train so flying is generally the better option

? I do that trip at least 10 times a year and haven’t come close to £100 for years

[Biffer]

Would a tax on aviation fuel /levy for purely UK internal flights be viable, as a UK unilateral measure? I'm sure I've heard it suggested before. It wouldn't even need to be that onerous, just enough to tip balance towards train, especially if it subsidised train investment for a better and ideally cheaper service.

It would make sense to address internal-only flights differently to anything international, as there is a clear alternative for UK internal which isn't always the case for international - ignoring whether international travel is always actually necessary. It's also more within the gift of the UK government, which isn't the case internationally. No point taxing London-JFK if people just go Paris-JFK instead.

International air travel is here to stay for the foreseeable, I'm afraid, unless we are happy to curtail people's choice to travel which is a very, very difficult sell. I've mentioned before but I wanted to go to Norway and fancied a ferry, only to find out the route was cut a few years back. There is no reasonable alternative to flying.

I had no idea there was no trainline from Dunfermline to Perth - I've not yet had call to try to travel by train that way. That just seems madness. I've not gone up to Aberdeen but I used to have to head to Dundee for work by train, so I feel Slick's pain.

Not really. They'd make sure they were filled up elsewhere.

The French government only gave Air France/KLM money during the pandemic in return for them not flying routes that are covered by TGV.

You get from Inverkeithing to Perth on the train by heading east to Kirkcaldy, and then up to Ladybank before heading west again and up to Perth. It takes as long to get from Edinburgh to Perth on the train as it does on the bus, or longer. It's nonsense and it's one of the reasons the Inverness and Aberdeen trains take so long.

There's a maximum amount of fuel an aircraft can carry and land with, so they can't really hold multiple flights of fuel. If they're going Edinburgh-London they'll take on fuel in Edinburgh, even if they may have flown into Edinburgh from abroad.

If that proves ineffective there's little reason I can see why there isn't an airport levy on UK internal flights. Bloody Norwich 'International' made me stump up a tenner at the gate as an airport improvement levy - at least I could see the money was sorely needed - so we could do similar. Or just add to ticket price, or follow the French approach and make any commercial benefits, subsidies, considerations and all else contingent upon not competing with trains. It just feels like it's in the direct gift of the UK to do this.

It would also have the additional benefit of winding up Michael O'Leary.

The lack of direct train line from the Forth bridge to Perth is bonkers. I've had a look at the rail maps on Scotrail (can't link to images as they're pdf download) and there appears to be a route via Falkirk and Stirling, which is miles out of the way - it's really going North-East to jump on the line from Glasgow. Assume this is another impact of Beeching?

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/plan-your-journey/our-routes

Yeah, Beeching, although it was never a main line.

If you think about coming out of Edinburgh Waverley, going via Fife you end up doing a giant S shape, going west to get to the bridge and then east to go to Kirkcaldy.

[Slick]

WiFi not working again.

On the upside I’m connected to the empty LNER train next to my train

[Tichtheid]

WiFi not working again.

On the upside I’m connected to the empty LNER train next to my train

To be honest I wouldn't be too concerned about that, I don't like using public wi-fi, I use data instead.

[Slick]

WiFi not working again.

On the upside I’m connected to the empty LNER train next to my train

To be honest I wouldn't be too concerned about that, I don't like using public wi-fi, I use data instead.

It’s quite shit in 2025 and means I can’t work.

Please don’t baffle me with hotspots or suchlike

[Slick]

WiFi not working again.

On the upside I’m connected to the empty LNER train next to my train

To be honest I wouldn't be too concerned about that, I don't like using public wi-fi, I use data instead.

It’s quite shit in 2025 and means I can’t work.

Please don’t baffle me with hotspots or suchlike

[Biffer]

Slick's lack of tech nous being amply demonstrated there :-D

[inactionman]

Not really. They'd make sure they were filled up elsewhere.

The French government only gave Air France/KLM money during the pandemic in return for them not flying routes that are covered by TGV.

You get from Inverkeithing to Perth on the train by heading east to Kirkcaldy, and then up to Ladybank before heading west again and up to Perth. It takes as long to get from Edinburgh to Perth on the train as it does on the bus, or longer. It's nonsense and it's one of the reasons the Inverness and Aberdeen trains take so long.

There's a maximum amount of fuel an aircraft can carry and land with, so they can't really hold multiple flights of fuel. If they're going Edinburgh-London they'll take on fuel in Edinburgh, even if they may have flown into Edinburgh from abroad.

If that proves ineffective there's little reason I can see why there isn't an airport levy on UK internal flights. Bloody Norwich 'International' made me stump up a tenner at the gate as an airport improvement levy - at least I could see the money was sorely needed - so we could do similar. Or just add to ticket price, or follow the French approach and make any commercial benefits, subsidies, considerations and all else contingent upon not competing with trains. It just feels like it's in the direct gift of the UK to do this.

It would also have the additional benefit of winding up Michael O'Leary.

The lack of direct train line from the Forth bridge to Perth is bonkers. I've had a look at the rail maps on Scotrail (can't link to images as they're pdf download) and there appears to be a route via Falkirk and Stirling, which is miles out of the way - it's really going North-East to jump on the line from Glasgow. Assume this is another impact of Beeching?

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/plan-your-journey/our-routes

Yeah, Beeching, although it was never a main line.

If you think about coming out of Edinburgh Waverley, going via Fife you end up doing a giant S shape, going west to get to the bridge and then east to go to Kirkcaldy.

The Greens were going to sort it all out (well, the tortuous route to Kirkcaldy, anyway)

Plans for a nine-mile “game changer” tunnel under the Forth have been announced by the Scottish Greens as part of a £22 billion scheme to transform the country’s rail network.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... ns-3094029

I've a mate who used to live Kirkcaldy when I lived in Leith, and it was mad it took the best part of an hour to get to his when I could see it almost from the end of my road.

[Tichtheid]

I've a mate who used to live Kirkcaldy when I lived in Leith, and it was mad it took the best part of an hour to get to his when I could see it almost from the end of my road.

To go off-topic for a second, I was in West Lothian on Monday, right down at the water's edge and I've never seen the Forth so still - perfect mirror reflections on the water of Fife.

Same when driving back - the bridges were spectacular

[Slick]

I've a mate who used to live Kirkcaldy when I lived in Leith, and it was mad it took the best part of an hour to get to his when I could see it almost from the end of my road.

To go off-topic for a second, I was in West Lothian on Monday, right down at the water's edge and I've never seen the Forth so still - perfect mirror reflections on the water of Fife.

Same when driving back - the bridges were spectacular

I was out rowing early Saturday morning and it was like glass, coloured pink and we had a seal follow us. Magic

[Slick]

Slick's lack of tech nous being amply demonstrated there :-D

that was as we pulled away and I lost the LNER connection.

Luckily the conductor shrugged his shoulders and said it never works, so that’s all settled

[Biffer]

There's a maximum amount of fuel an aircraft can carry and land with, so they can't really hold multiple flights of fuel. If they're going Edinburgh-London they'll take on fuel in Edinburgh, even if they may have flown into Edinburgh from abroad.

If that proves ineffective there's little reason I can see why there isn't an airport levy on UK internal flights. Bloody Norwich 'International' made me stump up a tenner at the gate as an airport improvement levy - at least I could see the money was sorely needed - so we could do similar. Or just add to ticket price, or follow the French approach and make any commercial benefits, subsidies, considerations and all else contingent upon not competing with trains. It just feels like it's in the direct gift of the UK to do this.

It would also have the additional benefit of winding up Michael O'Leary.

The lack of direct train line from the Forth bridge to Perth is bonkers. I've had a look at the rail maps on Scotrail (can't link to images as they're pdf download) and there appears to be a route via Falkirk and Stirling, which is miles out of the way - it's really going North-East to jump on the line from Glasgow. Assume this is another impact of Beeching?

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/plan-your-journey/our-routes

Yeah, Beeching, although it was never a main line.

If you think about coming out of Edinburgh Waverley, going via Fife you end up doing a giant S shape, going west to get to the bridge and then east to go to Kirkcaldy.

The Greens were going to sort it all out (well, the tortuous route to Kirkcaldy, anyway)

Plans for a nine-mile “game changer” tunnel under the Forth have been announced by the Scottish Greens as part of a £22 billion scheme to transform the country’s rail network.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... ns-3094029

I've a mate who used to live Kirkcaldy when I lived in Leith, and it was mad it took the best part of an hour to get to his when I could see it almost from the end of my road.

We need water buses / hovercraft over the Forth. They manage it in Vancouver, where they get plenty of wild weather as well, so it can be done here. It's just lack of will that's the problem.

[Slick]

Yeah, Beeching, although it was never a main line.

If you think about coming out of Edinburgh Waverley, going via Fife you end up doing a giant S shape, going west to get to the bridge and then east to go to Kirkcaldy.

The Greens were going to sort it all out (well, the tortuous route to Kirkcaldy, anyway)

Plans for a nine-mile “game changer” tunnel under the Forth have been announced by the Scottish Greens as part of a £22 billion scheme to transform the country’s rail network.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... ns-3094029

I've a mate who used to live Kirkcaldy when I lived in Leith, and it was mad it took the best part of an hour to get to his when I could see it almost from the end of my road.

We need water buses / hovercraft over the Forth. They manage it in Vancouver, where they get plenty of wild weather as well, so it can be done here. It's just lack of will that's the problem.

I heard a rumour a couple of weeks ago that a hovercraft was being launched

[inactionman]

The Greens were going to sort it all out (well, the tortuous route to Kirkcaldy, anyway)



https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... ns-3094029

I've a mate who used to live Kirkcaldy when I lived in Leith, and it was mad it took the best part of an hour to get to his when I could see it almost from the end of my road.

We need water buses / hovercraft over the Forth. They manage it in Vancouver, where they get plenty of wild weather as well, so it can be done here. It's just lack of will that's the problem.

I heard a rumour a couple of weeks ago that a hovercraft was being launched

Sounds hopeful

I think they trialled them about 20 years ago from Portobello, seemed like technically they were feasible. The area along by Seafield is pretty stinking so might as well drop a terminal there.

Wasn't there a ferry from Granton not all that long ago? Late 90s maybe? That would be a good idea, especially now the tram goes almost to Granton.

[robmatic]

Yeah, Beeching, although it was never a main line.

If you think about coming out of Edinburgh Waverley, going via Fife you end up doing a giant S shape, going west to get to the bridge and then east to go to Kirkcaldy.

The Greens were going to sort it all out (well, the tortuous route to Kirkcaldy, anyway)

Plans for a nine-mile “game changer” tunnel under the Forth have been announced by the Scottish Greens as part of a £22 billion scheme to transform the country’s rail network.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... ns-3094029

I've a mate who used to live Kirkcaldy when I lived in Leith, and it was mad it took the best part of an hour to get to his when I could see it almost from the end of my road.

We need water buses / hovercraft over the Forth. They manage it in Vancouver, where they get plenty of wild weather as well, so it can be done here. It's just lack of will that's the problem.

It is probably more feasible these days as well, now that Leith and Granton are more residential and have the tram connection to the city centre. However, Leith to Kirkcaldy is still 10 miles or so, which isn't a super quick sea journey and it might not stack up that well in comparison to the car option over the bridge. I do a similar distance to Kos for day trip/booze cruise purposes and it is about half an hour by catamaran or an hour by sea bus.

[Biffer]

The Greens were going to sort it all out (well, the tortuous route to Kirkcaldy, anyway)



https://www.scotsman.com/news/transport ... ns-3094029

I've a mate who used to live Kirkcaldy when I lived in Leith, and it was mad it took the best part of an hour to get to his when I could see it almost from the end of my road.

We need water buses / hovercraft over the Forth. They manage it in Vancouver, where they get plenty of wild weather as well, so it can be done here. It's just lack of will that's the problem.

It is probably more feasible these days as well, now that Leith and Granton are more residential and have the tram connection to the city centre. However, Leith to Kirkcaldy is still 10 miles or so, which isn't a super quick sea journey and it might not stack up that well in comparison to the car option over the bridge. I do a similar distance to Kos for day trip/booze cruise purposes and it is about half an hour by catamaran or an hour by sea bus.

Leith to Burntisland possibly - train station is right at the harbour and I'm sure you could get a reasonable car park somewhere nearby.

[Blackmac]

The prices are eye watering though, unless you can book 3 months in advance. I had a last minute trip to London last year and the cheapest train was just under £300.

I’ve never paid more than £100 return London - Edinburgh. Glasgow tends to be more expensive and of course a longer train so flying is generally the better option

? I do that trip at least 10 times a year and haven’t come close to £100 for years

Yep. Cheapest return tomorrow is £278. Cheapest return in 10 weeks time is £134.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Speaking of ferries (no, not Calmac moaning), I think I heard somewhere that a Rosyth to Dunkirk ferry was going to start from sometime early 2025? There's something on a French website about it, but can't find anything more. Anyone in the know?

[Biffer]

I’m told those of us in the central belt will get an emergency broadcast on module phones this evening about 1800, because of the red weather warning.

Having had one of these in the USA this year, telling us there was a tornado coming and to seek immediate shelter, they can scare the shit out of you.

[Slick]

I’m told those of us in the central belt will get an emergency broadcast on module phones this evening about 1800, because of the red weather warning.

Having had one of these in the USA this year, telling us there was a tornado coming and to seek immediate shelter, they can scare the shit out of you.

It had better live up to it

[Biffer]

I’m told those of us in the central belt will get an emergency broadcast on module phones this evening about 1800, because of the red weather warning.

Having had one of these in the USA this year, telling us there was a tornado coming and to seek immediate shelter, they can scare the shit out of you.

It had better live up to it

The forecast wind levels are higher than for Bawbag and the bigger one the following year.

[inactionman]

They reckon it'll top 80mph in Edinburgh, so expecting our garden is going to be quite signifncalty re-arranged. We had a hefty tree branch down over summer, hoping we don't get a repeat of that.

[inactionman]

I’m told those of us in the central belt will get an emergency broadcast on module phones this evening about 1800, because of the red weather warning.

Having had one of these in the USA this year, telling us there was a tornado coming and to seek immediate shelter, they can scare the shit out of you.

Just got it.

Very rudely interrupted a zoom meet I was on

[Slick]

I’m told those of us in the central belt will get an emergency broadcast on module phones this evening about 1800, because of the red weather warning.

Having had one of these in the USA this year, telling us there was a tornado coming and to seek immediate shelter, they can scare the shit out of you.

Well that scared the shit out of me!

[robmatic]

I’m told those of us in the central belt will get an emergency broadcast on module phones this evening about 1800, because of the red weather warning.

Having had one of these in the USA this year, telling us there was a tornado coming and to seek immediate shelter, they can scare the shit out of you.

It had better live up to it

The forecast wind levels are higher than for Bawbag and the bigger one the following year.

I remember getting sent home from the office for that big one and thinking it was a bit exaggerated - and then almost getting blown off my feet walking home through sheltered Canonmills.