So, coronavirus...

[Bimbowomxn]

Congratulations on being a sociopath.

I used to teach. The vast majority of the families whose kids were on free school meals were not profligate scum buying scratch cards and fags instead of feeding their kids, they were hard working people in low paid jobs who often struggled to make ends meet.

I have friends who are social workers or otherwise employed in the social care sector, shockingly, their experience doesn't seem to align with yours... They've also managed to refrain from becoming empathy vacuums.

As an aside, and I know we've covered this before, your anecdotal experience does not define the wider picture, nor is it superior to the anecdotal experience of others, so stop dropping it as though it's some kind of trump card. Assuming its even real.

Indeed and the majority of families even of the low earning don’t need free poor quality food in the school holidays.

As an aside I don’t give a fuck what a few Social workers say or report. I do know people who don’t prioritise feeding the children should be managed though.

Empathy argument is just so fucking childish.

[Bimbowomxn]

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit

[Bimbowomxn]

https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit

Marcus Rashford paid himself £4,978 from MUCS Enterprises Ltd in 2018, but gave himself an unsecured, interest free advance of £395,808.

Directors Loan rather than taking a taxable Salary or Dividend.

Remember that when he calls for Taxpayers Money to be spent.

[Tichtheid]

Child benefit is taken into account for the benefit cap

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-cap


I'd like an answer as to the what the answer is to low paid fulltime workers claiming benefits.

[Northern Lights]

We have a situation where up to a third of Universal credit claimants are in work, likewise a similar proportion of foodbank users working. Trussell Trust is one of three big foodbank providers and they gave out 1.9 million parcels during the year to 31st of March 2020.

Does anyone really think people are spending their dough on BetFred and takeaway pizzas, whilst letting their children go hungry?


I always thought that the Tories were good at spin, dog knows they got a lot of people to vote for them, but this school meals issue is a PR disaster for them, obviously not to the wing nuts who can't see beyond their own privet hedge, but out here in the real world this plays very badly for them, and all for not a lot of money.

On this, has this increased as a percentage?

There has been government action on increasing the lower paid wages, most notably large increases in the minimum wage, without getting into all the bandings (they have all increased) but if we just take the over 25's

It has gone from £6.70 per hour in 2015 to £8.72 per hour as of April this year, the increases have been well above inflation and in particular food inflation throughout this time. I'm not saying there isnt a problem, I'm more curious on the throwaway comments about workers in Tesco.

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

[Tichtheid]

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

[Northern Lights]

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

[Rinkals]

And if they are unable to do so for whatever reason, how would you suggest we deal with the situation?

Point of order: Did Bimbo say that?

Bottom of the last page

I don't think you really need to go looking for it: Bimbo has offered enough evidence of his sociopathic regard for his fellow man on this page to make it entirely superfluous.

[Insane_Homer]

Funny how there's money to subsidise MPs to the tune of ~£4.5 million per annum for their parliamentary food and alcohol

Shirley MPs on £74k + expenses, benefits, second home, free transport & bribes can afford to feed themselves?

[Biffer]

We have a situation where up to a third of Universal credit claimants are in work, likewise a similar proportion of foodbank users working. Trussell Trust is one of three big foodbank providers and they gave out 1.9 million parcels during the year to 31st of March 2020.

Does anyone really think people are spending their dough on BetFred and takeaway pizzas, whilst letting their children go hungry?


I always thought that the Tories were good at spin, dog knows they got a lot of people to vote for them, but this school meals issue is a PR disaster for them, obviously not to the wing nuts who can't see beyond their own privet hedge, but out here in the real world this plays very badly for them, and all for not a lot of money.

This is an issue that does my head in. How can, for instance, a full time employee of Tesco which makes 100's of millions in profit every year, be so low paid that they need government assistance to live. It's crazy.

It's a government subsidy to business which effectively uses tax payers money to increase the wealth of shareholders.

[Bimbowomxn]

Funny how there's money to subsidise MPs to the tune of ~£4.5 million per annum for their parliamentary food and alcohol

Shirley MPs on £74k + expenses, benefits, second home, free transport & bribes can afford to feed themselves?

That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

[Biffer]

The answer isn’t likely to be more benefits.

So what should the answer be?

Funnily enough, that's the closest I've ever seen him to being right. No, the answer isn't more benefits, it's to make employers pay an actual living wage to their employees and if that takes a bite out of the profits, so fucking be it. Until our legislative branch grows a spine and tackles that, the state needs to foot the bill.

[Bimbowomxn]

Distribution of tax payer funds to private landlords and corporates should obviously stop, all governments are doing is interfering.

The switch has to be gradual as described by NL.


Done correctly it doesn’t affect profits as you take less tax from companies.

[Lobby]

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

Hard evidence on the reasons for food bank use, and in particular its increase, is limited, but there is some evidence that a good proportion of food bank use is due to temporary changes in circumstances, rather than long term poverty. These includes changes to, and delays in receiving, benefits. The introduction of universal credit has seen lots of people experiencing long delays in receiving benefits, or reductions in their benefits, which have resulted in them using food banks for a time. Once these changes in benefits are sorted out, they stop needing to make use of food banks.

I do wonder as well if the gig economy is a contributory factor. The minimum wage is fine, but if the numbers of hours work you do each week is variable because you are don’t have a full time job, this could result in the need to sometimes make use of foodbanks.

[Insane_Homer]

That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

but

Feed your own children ffs.

isn't

[Bimbowomxn]

That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

but

Feed your own children ffs.

isn't

No, being responsible for your own children is an actual principle..... and a good one.

[Tichtheid]

So i suppose my question is more have these increases in min wage and living wage not had any impact, is it getting worse and what is the solution before we demonise the politicians again.

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

I've just been on a net income calculator (they do the allowance for tax rates etc) after stoppages a forty hour week on minimum wage brings in almost £16k.
Average rent in the UK is very difficult to calculate as it varies so much, London is almost not worth including because it's such an outlier, but there is a BBC site from almost exactly two years ago that states the average in England for a one bedroom home is £600 per month, £7 200 per year, we're left with £8 800.
Average food shopping bill for one person is £25 per week , that lowers our total to £7 600. GAs and Electricity come in at £2 400, leaving us £5 200, the lowest council tax band in my area is £1 300, water is about £400. So £3 500 left.

I've been very conservative (there's a first time for everything) in my estimates, the estimated costs on the Money Advice Service site for living alone are much higher.

Does this person walk to work or get public transport? Do they need a car to get to an out of the way place or to work at unsociable hours? We'd have to allow for that. Do they need a phone? Broadband, TV licence, clothing, dentists appointments. This doesn't allow for any extras or emergencies.

I think our three and half grand would disappear quickly.

Yes this is a gross oversimplification and yes people can save by living with others, but I can see why people in work on low wages need extra help.

edited to correct terrible sums

[Northern Lights]

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

Hard evidence on the reasons for food bank use, and in particular its increase, is limited, but there is some evidence that a good proportion of food bank use is due to temporary changes in circumstances, rather than long term poverty. These includes changes to, and delays in receiving, benefits. The introduction of universal credit has seen lots of people experiencing long delays in receiving benefits, or reductions in their benefits, which have resulted in them using food banks for a time. Once these changes in benefits are sorted out, they stop needing to make use of food banks.

I do wonder as well if the gig economy is a contributory factor. The minimum wage is fine, but if the numbers of hours work you do each week is variable because you are don’t have a full time job, this could result in the need to sometimes make use of foodbanks.

I agree on the gig workers, this needs to be stopped/closed, they aren’t contractors/self employed it is a pile of shite imho. Guarantee min no of hours and proper employment contracts, all they are doing is stealing market share for responsible employers by gaming the system. If the consumer won’t pay for a proper employment business model, it’s a broken business model that needs to go.

Interesting on the food bank use being due to the delay in receiving benefits, shows how vulnerable the debt heavy population are to any shocks to their employment situation, certainly not an easy fix and particularly worrying with the economic disaster we’re facing.

[Tichtheid]

Interesting on the food bank use being due to the delay in receiving benefits, shows how vulnerable the debt heavy population are to any shocks to their employment situation, certainly not an easy fix and particularly worrying with the economic disaster we’re facing.

I think it's not just people who are in debt, those who are not able to build up any savings (see last post) are vulnerable.

[Insane_Homer]

That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

but

Feed your own children ffs.

isn't

No, being responsible for your own children is an actual principle..... and a good one.

yes, facile

[Bimbowomxn]

but



isn't

No, being responsible for your own children is an actual principle..... and a good one.

yes, facile

Again, I’ll make the point of people looking after their own children that you seem to think is optional.

And I’m the unreasonable cunt.

[Insane_Homer]

No, being responsible for your own children is an actual principle..... and a good one.

yes, facile

Again, I’ll make the point of people looking after their own children that you seem to think is optional.

And I’m the unreasonable cunt.

I never said it's optional, that's your rather crass assumption. There are many reasons parents might not be able to feed their kids, both within and outside of their control, it is however facile to think that it's simply an 'option' to do so.

So, on principle, you would rather a child starve, and be punished because his/her parents, for whatever reason, cannot feed them?

That's a pychotic lack of empathy, even by your low standards.

I wonder what Michael Gove's take on that option of "people looking after their own children"?

Unreasonable, and might I add hypocritical, cunt is more than accurate.

[Insane_Homer]

Little wonder that you're able to project your own lack of empathy onto these parents and then think you're in anyway different from them when you're both seemingly happy to 'choose' that they go hungry.

[Insane_Homer]

anyway, back on track, fear mongering stats for today

21,242 cases
189 Deaths

[Bimbowomxn]

anyway, back on track, fear mongering stats for today

21,242 cases
189 Deaths

Big fall in positive tests (not cases). This is good news.

[Bimbowomxn]

Little wonder that you're able to project your own lack of empathy onto these parents and then think you're in anyway different from them when you're both seemingly happy to 'choose' that they go hungry.

I’ve lots of empathy for the children , less for the parents and want the issue solved for the genuine destitute. No lack of empathy here.

You’re argument that the situation is improved by the state taking responsibility rather than the parents is stupid and not empathetic to most people. People on lowish wages will pay more in tax to feed someone else’s child. It’s madness.

[Bimbowomxn]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... gh-england


Poor people are fatter .....

[Northern Lights]

Interesting on the food bank use being due to the delay in receiving benefits, shows how vulnerable the debt heavy population are to any shocks to their employment situation, certainly not an easy fix and particularly worrying with the economic disaster we’re facing.

I think it's not just people who are in debt, those who are not able to build up any savings (see last post) are vulnerable.

It's the consumer society/economy that we have built or been part of for the last few decades, personal savings in the UK are among the lowest in the Western world and we are highly geared comparatively. This for me shows a fundamental weakness with how we are structured, that and such a proportion of our incomes are taken up with housing, as a proportion of our income food has never been lower and yet people are having to resort to food banks.

All in all its a mess with no easy fixes.

[Paddington Bear]

Interesting on the food bank use being due to the delay in receiving benefits, shows how vulnerable the debt heavy population are to any shocks to their employment situation, certainly not an easy fix and particularly worrying with the economic disaster we’re facing.

I think it's not just people who are in debt, those who are not able to build up any savings (see last post) are vulnerable.

It's the consumer society/economy that we have built or been part of for the last few decades, personal savings in the UK are among the lowest in the Western world and we are highly geared comparatively. This for me shows a fundamental weakness with how we are structured, that and such a proportion of our incomes are taken up with housing, as a proportion of our income food has never been lower and yet people are having to resort to food banks.

All in all its a mess with no easy fixes.

I'd be very interested to find out if people would save a higher proportion of their income if owning decent housing was a more realistic ambition.

[tc27]

Apparently supermarkets in Wales will only be allowed to sell 'essential items'.

The devolved admins in the UK have gone on a power trip - what a mess.

[C69]

Apparently supermarkets in Wales will only be allowed to sell 'essential items'.

The devolved admins in the UK have gone on a power trip - what a mess.

That's fucking moronic

[dpedin]

There isn't really a straightforward answer to that, foodbank use is on the increase, numbers claiming UC are difficult to keep track of because it's a fairly new system and combines several older benefits, I've been out of the loop for a few years now, but my experience was that ESA and DLA were becoming more difficult to claim, I was involved with dealing with Atos at tribunal and day to day correspondence.

I have to say the adjudicators at the tribunals themselves are very good.

I suppose for me it would be about separating 2 issues, there is in-work poverty and then the unemployed.

It is the in work one that i would hope has improved with the changes that have been made notably on the min/living wage increase and also the changes to the tax system which was initially a LibDem idea from memory but the tories stuck with when they were in coalition now up to £12,500 the ratey ou start paying income tax. The living wage is now far closer to the "Real living Wage" and would get there if they increase again in April, i do know they are worried about increasing it again when sectors such as hospitality are the best part of fucked at the moment with Covid so they will probably pause that increase. There would certainly be an argument for increasing the starting salary on when you pay income tax though and leave more money in the workers pockets than then having them reclaim what they need through the benefits system.

I've just been on a net income calculator (they do the allowance for tax rates etc) after stoppages a forty hour week on minimum wage brings in almost £16k.
Average rent in the UK is very difficult to calculate as it varies so much, London is almost not worth including because it's such an outlier, but there is a BBC site from almost exactly two years ago that states the average in England for a one bedroom home is £600 per month, £7 200 per year, we're left with £8 800.
Average food shopping bill for one person is £25 per week , that lowers our total to £7 600. GAs and Electricity come in at £2 400, leaving us £5 200, the lowest council tax band in my area is £1 300, water is about £400. So £3 500 left.

I've been very conservative (there's a first time for everything) in my estimates, the estimated costs on the Money Advice Service site for living alone are much higher.

Does this person walk to work or get public transport? Do they need a car to get to an out of the way place or to work at unsociable hours? We'd have to allow for that. Do they need a phone? Broadband, TV licence, clothing, dentists appointments. This doesn't allow for any extras or emergencies.

I think our three and half grand would disappear quickly.

Yes this is a gross oversimplification and yes people can save by living with others, but I can see why people in work on low wages need extra help.

edited to correct terrible sums

Well done Tichthead - cut through the crap with a bit of research and some real facts and figures. Good analysis and it shows clearly that the numbers above are very very tight for low earners, if not impossible to have a reasonable life. And of course it isn't enough! The answer for me is to keep increasing the min wage so employers are paying a proper wage and we reduce what is in effect Gov subsidies to private sector in form of in work benefits. In the short term I suggest we have a windfall tax for all those companies that have seen their profits grow due to the pandemic - the likes of Amazon, Serco et al should be contributing to the society that is generating their income at the moment and lets start using the tax return to pay for free feckin school meals!

[Rinkals]

Funny how there's money to subsidise MPs to the tune of ~£4.5 million per annum for their parliamentary food and alcohol

Shirley MPs on £74k + expenses, benefits, second home, free transport & bribes can afford to feed themselves?

That’s about as facile a take I’d expect.

It's a valid point.

There's no money for feeding children because the budget needs to go towards keeping Mark Francois in Mars Bars and Perperami.

[Tichtheid]

Apparently supermarkets in Wales will only be allowed to sell 'essential items'.

The devolved admins in the UK have gone on a power trip - what a mess.

That's fucking moronic

From what I can gather supermarkets are being restricted from selling clothes so that small retailers who have to shut are not losing business.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just it’s not bogroll and bread only.

[Enzedder]

The answer for me is to keep increasing the min wage so employers are paying a proper wage and we reduce what is in effect Gov subsidies to private sector in form of in work benefits.

That's what we have been doing here - reduces company tax but we save more on less payments to low income families.

Worst sort of government subsidy we ever started - cost billions and all it did was allow the big companies to keep workers on low pay.

[Rinkals]

Apparently supermarkets in Wales will only be allowed to sell 'essential items'.

The devolved admins in the UK have gone on a power trip - what a mess.

That's fucking moronic

From what I can gather supermarkets are being restricted from selling clothes so that small retailers who have to shut are not losing business.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just it’s not bogroll and bread only.

At least there's some logic behind it, however tenuous.

In South Africa, we had the situation where Government outlawed the selling of open-toed sandals (shoes were allowed).

The irrationality of some of the regulations spoke of the controlling instincts of officials which served to undermine public obedience in the measures and lose support for them.

[Enzedder]

Did I hear right today - Belgium are sending patients to hospital in Germany to reduce the pressure on their health services. I didn't think they would have any old people with co-morbidities left.

[Tichtheid]

That's fucking moronic

From what I can gather supermarkets are being restricted from selling clothes so that small retailers who have to shut are not losing business.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, just it’s not bogroll and bread only.

At least there's some logic behind it, however tenuous.

In South Africa, we had the situation where Government outlawed the selling of open-toed sandals (shoes were allowed).

The irrationality of some of the regulations spoke of the controlling instincts of officials which served to undermine public obedience in the measures and lose support for them.

That is a bit bizarre.

Weren’t booze and cigarettes proscribed too? I’m not a smoker but I used to be and that would have been tough.

Off licenses are staying open in Wales, so supermarkets can sell booze.

[Insane_Homer]

Remember folks Bimbo would rather kids starve so that he can continue afford his nice cars...

[Bimbowomxn]

Remember folks Bimbo would rather kids starve so that he can continue afford his nice cars...

Blimey, coming from a man who started a “ look what I’ve just bought” thread.



Self aware as ever.