The Official English Rugby Thread
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My stram quality's not great, but was that not a knock on in the tackle on Willis? Flight of the ball looked like it.
Edit - what a response!
Edit - what a response!
Last edited by sockwithaticket on Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nah, copped a hit on the arm maybe...sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:05 pm My stram quality's not great, but was that not a knock on in the tackle on Willis? Flight of the ball looked like it.
Edit - what a response!
Monye, if it's squeeze ball position they don't need to be on the ball, that was what was said. The fact he dragged him 3m and the tackled player didn't release is the problem. The pen was given against whoever it was that took out the 9.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Grandfather Time on for Le Bourgeois, possibly a necessary change to exert a bit more control even if its injury enforced.
They do need to be on the ball.
Think Carley is just giving these scrums to even them out. Stuart clearly on the arm, repeatedly, including the time he whistled it in Stuarts favour.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Not with the squeeze ball position, it's impossible to get on the ball in those circumstances, if they drag the player, like Willis did, the player has to release the ball.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
West's arse is miles higher than his shoulders, which is not helping him at all
Having just watched a replay of the last one, Stuart is actually binding on the chest , you can see the shirt when he disengages on collapse
Last edited by JM2K6 on Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Stuart is on his arm, he's getting pulled to the ground in that position and there's nothing he can do.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
No, see my edit. The bind on the last one was actually chest.
Going to disagree, also having seen the replay.
Missed the collapse of the maul. Then this is the second time they've offended, and just killed the ball regardless.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Good time to score, liked the variation of angles with those running off the quick tap.
I don't want you thinking the ref is screwing you. I'm happy to upload a video. The hand is binding on the chest, not the arm.
I don't think he's screwing us, I just think he's got that wrong. You can be holding the shirt that came from the chest, and still be on the arm. Personally I think the first scrum he gave against Bath could have more easily gone their way, or been reset. He's being as bad at the breakdown for both sides (though it effects us more I feel, but that's not him being against us). We've got lucky with him missing knock ons, and not giving an offside penalty against Willis from one of the box kicks. We're getting stuff as well as losing it. I'm just less likely to be frustrated enough to actually type something, when we're on the better side of a decision.JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:32 pmI don't want you thinking the ref is screwing you. I'm happy to upload a video. The hand is binding on the chest, not the arm.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
No. The law is about binding on the arm. If you're binding on the chest, you're fine. West's problems are a) he's allowed Stuart to get a tight bind around and under him, and b) his hips are too high.Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:37 pmI don't think he's screwing us, I just think he's got that wrong. You can be holding the shirt that came from the chest, and still be on the arm. Personally I think the first scrum he gave against Bath could have more easily gone their way, or been reset. He's being as bad at the breakdown for both sides (though it effects us more I feel, but that's not him being against us). We've got lucky with him missing knock ons, and not giving an offside penalty against Willis from one of the box kicks. We're getting stuff as well as losing it. I'm just less likely to be frustrated enough to actually type something, when we're on the better side of a decision.
You may well be right about the other scrums, I only looked at this one in detail, but his arse height was a big issue on at least one other scrum and that's a basic problem.
It's kind of an odd game so far - it's reasonably open and quite exciting, but both sides have made life easy in defence at times!
Yeah, but if you grab the shirt, then bring your hand (and the shirt) onto the top of the arm (basically in the armpit, or just below), it's classed as binding on the arm. You're supposed to keep your hand off their arm, you can get away with it on the shoulder, but perfectly you want a long bind and keep your arm basically outstretched, the problem is, it's not as powerful a position, and it means you struggle to control their arms as much. By bringing in a tighter bind, you can also force their elbow down, and almost twist them in, quite often buying yourself a penalty as a lot of refs will see the looseheads elbow pointing down, and assume his twisting in or pulling it to ground, when in truth it's the tighthead forcing his arm down due to the very short bind.JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:42 pmNo. The law is about binding on the arm. If you're binding on the chest, you're fine. West's problems are a) he's allowed Stuart to get a tight bind around and under him, and b) his hips are too high.Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:37 pmI don't think he's screwing us, I just think he's got that wrong. You can be holding the shirt that came from the chest, and still be on the arm. Personally I think the first scrum he gave against Bath could have more easily gone their way, or been reset. He's being as bad at the breakdown for both sides (though it effects us more I feel, but that's not him being against us). We've got lucky with him missing knock ons, and not giving an offside penalty against Willis from one of the box kicks. We're getting stuff as well as losing it. I'm just less likely to be frustrated enough to actually type something, when we're on the better side of a decision.
You may well be right about the other scrums, I only looked at this one in detail, but his arse height was a big issue on at least one other scrum and that's a basic problem.
It's kind of an odd game so far - it's reasonably open and quite exciting, but both sides have made life easy in defence at times!
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Tom Cruse is such a success story, lovely try.
Bonus point baby.
Bonus point baby.
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Feck, that was really nice from Redpath.
Christ knows how high the final score is going to get at this rate!
Christ knows how high the final score is going to get at this rate!
a) It's not classed as binding on the arm if you're bound on the chest, which is what Stuart is doing. He is not binding on the armpit or the shoulder. His hand is not on the arm. I will upload the video once google stops being a dick!Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:46 pmYeah, but if you grab the shirt, then bring your hand (and the shirt) onto the top of the arm (basically in the armpit, or just below), it's classed as binding on the arm. You're supposed to keep your hand off their arm, you can get away with it on the shoulder, but perfectly you want a long bind and keep your arm basically outstretched, the problem is, it's not as powerful a position, and it means you struggle to control their arms as much. By bringing in a tighter bind, you can also force their elbow down, and almost twist them in, quite often buying yourself a penalty as a lot of refs will see the looseheads elbow pointing down, and assume his twisting in or pulling it to ground, when in truth it's the tighthead forcing his arm down due to the very short bind.JM2K6 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:42 pmNo. The law is about binding on the arm. If you're binding on the chest, you're fine. West's problems are a) he's allowed Stuart to get a tight bind around and under him, and b) his hips are too high.Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:37 pm
I don't think he's screwing us, I just think he's got that wrong. You can be holding the shirt that came from the chest, and still be on the arm. Personally I think the first scrum he gave against Bath could have more easily gone their way, or been reset. He's being as bad at the breakdown for both sides (though it effects us more I feel, but that's not him being against us). We've got lucky with him missing knock ons, and not giving an offside penalty against Willis from one of the box kicks. We're getting stuff as well as losing it. I'm just less likely to be frustrated enough to actually type something, when we're on the better side of a decision.
You may well be right about the other scrums, I only looked at this one in detail, but his arse height was a big issue on at least one other scrum and that's a basic problem.
It's kind of an odd game so far - it's reasonably open and quite exciting, but both sides have made life easy in defence at times!
b) He has achieved what all tightheads really want in a scrum, which is - as you've correctly pointed out - is to get a tight but legal bind where he's essentially depowered his opposite number and has great control over his outside arm. It is up to the loosehead to avoid getting in that position in the first place.
c) You cannot win that battle if your head is below your hips from the start, which is West's other major issue.
video here- you can actually see West's armpit and the hand isn't on it, the hand's clearly on the chest. if the resolution is good enough on imgur you should be able to see the chest part of the shirt spring back when he releases.
Stuart's doing a great job with that one - we'll see what happens in the 2nd half once the coaches have had a word with West.
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Odogwu is coming into serious form.
Looks like whoever can actually manage a kick off will take the game at the moment.
Looks like whoever can actually manage a kick off will take the game at the moment.
Running through an Underhill arm tackle shows his power, jeezsockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 8:56 pm Odogwu is coming into serious form.
Looks like whoever can actually manage a kick off will take the game at the moment.
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Odogwu now with a turnover. His chonk and centre of gravity must make him hard to shift in that position.
Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.
Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.
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They're always ecnouraged to bite off as much as possible, it means a few go dead, but a fair few more end up scoreable. I'll settle for it.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:05 pm Odogwu now with a turnover. His chonk and centre of gravity must make him hard to shift in that position.
Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
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Don't see the need to go for broke with the field position we were already in and all this pressure has stemmed from the resultant scrum.Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:06 pmThey're always ecnouraged to bite off as much as possible, it means a few go dead, but a fair few more end up scoreable. I'll settle for it.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:05 pm Odogwu now with a turnover. His chonk and centre of gravity must make him hard to shift in that position.
Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.
The difference is being able to maul it over or not. Personally I think we should have gone for 3.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:12 pmDon't see the need to go for broke with the field position we were already in and all this pressure has stemmed from the resultant scrum.Raggs wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:06 pmThey're always ecnouraged to bite off as much as possible, it means a few go dead, but a fair few more end up scoreable. I'll settle for it.sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:05 pm Odogwu now with a turnover. His chonk and centre of gravity must make him hard to shift in that position.
Poor missed kick to touch from Umaga.
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.