The Official English Rugby Thread

[JM2K6]

Just read the Graun ratings and they have Ford (6) 1 mark lower than Slade (7) and a mere 1 mark higher than Farrell and Youngs (5).

There's both good and bad to Eddie not listening to the papers. Overall, it's a good thing.

Judging by some of the fanatical comments, I think Eddie not only reads the papers but he and his coaching staff are busy below the line

[ASMO]

For me Ford was a 7 along with May and Watson, Slade a 5 at a pinch, Youngs and Farrell a generous 4 and Daly a 2.

[Hal Jordan]

Matt Dawson click bait from the BBC, questioning Farrell's attacking nous.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56048366

[sockwithaticket]

Absolutely filthy conditions for Wasps - Worcester, so a fair few handling errors, but Wasps looking more fluent in attack than they have the last couple of weeks. Atkinson's having a whale of a time.

[Raggs]

How can you watch the scrum go sideways 3m, then blame the tighthead (or indeed either prop) on the outside of that? Someone on the side it's moving is twisting in. Clearly in my mind, it's Wuss tighthead, but still.

[sockwithaticket]

Finished a lot closer than maybe it ought to have done, but good to get the win and see some big performances from players like Atkinson and Willis jr.

[Ovals]

Finished a lot closer than maybe it ought to have done, but good to get the win and see some big performances from players like Atkinson and Willis jr.

Yep - they looked good for a BP win at HT but ended up hanging on by the skin of their teeth. The rain and wind stopped for the 2nd half, so Wasps definitely had the worst of the conditions. Even so, they fell off badly in the 2nd Half.

[Saint]

Being reported that Saints have signed Juarno Augustus from the Stormers

[Paddington Bear]

Right, let's get controversial. We're going to win the 6N. Why?
1) I strongly believe we will get better as the tournament goes on. We might even drop Youngs. Basically I think we've played our worst rugby already
2) We stand between France and a Grand Slam, also standing between France and a Grand Slam is France. I think this is as open a tournament as there has been for years and it will come down to points.
3) In all three remaining games we ought to win up front. Our forwards are better than the Irish/Welsh/French. Ireland nearly beat France with a fly half who is a joke beyond anything we're doing.
4) Wales will have some confidence but they're the same side who offered very little in the ANC. 15 men on the pitch and we ought to turn them over.
5) Italy as a wildcard. Not a complete joke, they gave Scotland and Wales a run for their money in the autumn and will do so again.

Just my arrogant imperialist point of view but I think this tournament is there for the taking. Every side can beat each other, France's strength over us is largely one superb player, otherwise I think we have the measure of them.

[ASMO]

Right, let's get controversial. We're going to win the 6N. Why?
1) I strongly believe we will get better as the tournament goes on. We might even drop Youngs. Basically I think we've played our worst rugby already
2) We stand between France and a Grand Slam, also standing between France and a Grand Slam is France. I think this is as open a tournament as there has been for years and it will come down to points.
3) In all three remaining games we ought to win up front. Our forwards are better than the Irish/Welsh/French. Ireland nearly beat France with a fly half who is a joke beyond anything we're doing.
4) Wales will have some confidence but they're the same side who offered very little in the ANC. 15 men on the pitch and we ought to turn them over.
5) Italy as a wildcard. Not a complete joke, they gave Scotland and Wales a run for their money in the autumn and will do so again.

Just my arrogant imperialist point of view but I think this tournament is there for the taking. Every side can beat each other, France's strength over us is largely one superb player, otherwise I think we have the measure of them.

Can i have some of that crack you have been smoking

[sockwithaticket]

Right, let's get controversial. We're going to win the 6N. Why?
1) I strongly believe we will get better as the tournament goes on. We might even drop Youngs. Basically I think we've played our worst rugby already
2) We stand between France and a Grand Slam, also standing between France and a Grand Slam is France. I think this is as open a tournament as there has been for years and it will come down to points.
3) In all three remaining games we ought to win up front. Our forwards are better than the Irish/Welsh/French. Ireland nearly beat France with a fly half who is a joke beyond anything we're doing.
4) Wales will have some confidence but they're the same side who offered very little in the ANC. 15 men on the pitch and we ought to turn them over.
5) Italy as a wildcard. Not a complete joke, they gave Scotland and Wales a run for their money in the autumn and will do so again.

Just my arrogant imperialist point of view but I think this tournament is there for the taking. Every side can beat each other, France's strength over us is largely one superb player, otherwise I think we have the measure of them.

From you keyboard to Eddie's eyes, but I really don't see that happening.

Italy get worse as the tournament progresses. They usually start relatively strong and become easier to knock over and run up a score against as they have less and less to play for except pride. I don't see them troubling anyone.

All our remaining games are winnable, but they're easily losable too. Wales away and Ireland away will forever give me conniptions regardless of relative form. Wales have won a grandslam while being pretty poor as recently as 2019, I wouldn't put it past them to bumble their way to a result against us and possible title.

[Paddington Bear]

We'll see. But the way I see it is we have two games where I'd say we're 60/40 to win and one where it's 40/60. I'm liking those odds for the reasons set out above - I think we should have a dominant pack in all three games.

[Ovals]

We'll see. But the way I see it is we have two games where I'd say we're 60/40 to win and one where it's 40/60. I'm liking those odds for the reasons set out above - I think we should have a dominant pack in all three games.

On the other hand - unless we improve substantially, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we lost all the remaining games. Wales is probably our best oppotunity for a win - they haven't looked very good.

Depends how confident you are that Eddie can get us playing better rugby again. Cutting out the stupid penalties, errors and lack of precision. And making some key personnel changes. Even if he can't bring himself to get shot of Youngs and Farrell, surely Daly can't carry on at FB.

On the plus side - even playing as badly as we did against Scotland - we kept the scoreline close - we'll remain a tough nut to crack.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Just my arrogant imperialist point of view but I think this tournament is there for the taking. Every side can beat each other, France's strength over us is largely one superb player, otherwise I think we have the measure of them.

France have a very big and strong pack and have lots of wins on the gain line. So to edge their pack either Mako and Sincks have to win 4-5 scrum pens between them when neither are there as out and out scrum merchants, or we need to control our lineout and win 5-6 of theirs. In advance I don't expect France to smash our forwards, but given how England tend to play (looking to win the collisions themselves and go from there) I'd expect France to edge it in the forwards, as we saw in the last game against France playing their 3rds

[Ovals]

Just my arrogant imperialist point of view but I think this tournament is there for the taking. Every side can beat each other, France's strength over us is largely one superb player, otherwise I think we have the measure of them.

France have a very big and strong pack and have lots of wins on the gain line. So to edge their pack either Mako and Sincks have to win 4-5 scrum pens between them when neither are there as out and out scrum merchants, or we need to control our lineout and win 5-6 of theirs. In advance I don't expect France to smash our forwards, but given how England tend to play (looking to win the collisions themselves and go from there) I'd expect France to edge it in the forwards, as we saw in the last game against France playing their 3rds

Their pack didn't get much change out of the Irish, certainly not in the set piece. Must admit, I thought it was an area where we'd, at least, match them - as long as we don't give away stupid pens/free kicks

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Just my arrogant imperialist point of view but I think this tournament is there for the taking. Every side can beat each other, France's strength over us is largely one superb player, otherwise I think we have the measure of them.

France have a very big and strong pack and have lots of wins on the gain line. So to edge their pack either Mako and Sincks have to win 4-5 scrum pens between them when neither are there as out and out scrum merchants, or we need to control our lineout and win 5-6 of theirs. In advance I don't expect France to smash our forwards, but given how England tend to play (looking to win the collisions themselves and go from there) I'd expect France to edge it in the forwards, as we saw in the last game against France playing their 3rds

Their pack didn't get much change out of the Irish, certainly not in the set piece. Must admit, I thought it was an area where we'd, at least, match them - as long as we don't give away stupid pens/free kicks

Ireland got after their lineout and scrum, we might do the same though I don't tend to think Sicks will get in the same position as Porter much. Whether Lawes will still be for the lineout with his breakdown issues I don't know. Even allowing for their set piece issues France won a lot of the collisions with Ireland, so Ireland had the ball but couldn't get any go forward and didn't try to move the ball out of contact when under such pressure in the tackle. If we move the ball really quickly and accurately or dominate the collisions we'll be well set, but we don't tend to move the ball quickly, accuracy isn't a hallmark of ours either, and we tend to lose contact against France of recent times

The big unknown is discipline, both France and England can give away 14+ penalties in a game easily, and a good number more on a good day. And maybe how many balls will the back three drop, Daly and May can be hit and miss and Dulin showed pressure and weather can get to him

[Hal Jordan]

With Lawes having won a turnover penalty against Italy, Wilson blotting his copybook and poor old Willis doing his knee, I think it's a safe enough bet that the Spanish Galleon will set sail at blindside for the rest of the 6N...

[Paddington Bear]

We'll see. But the way I see it is we have two games where I'd say we're 60/40 to win and one where it's 40/60. I'm liking those odds for the reasons set out above - I think we should have a dominant pack in all three games.

On the other hand - unless we improve substantially, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we lost all the remaining games. Wales is probably our best oppotunity for a win - they haven't looked very good.

Depends how confident you are that Eddie can get us playing better rugby again. Cutting out the stupid penalties, errors and lack of precision. And making some key personnel changes. Even if he can't bring himself to get shot of Youngs and Farrell, surely Daly can't carry on at FB.

On the plus side - even playing as badly as we did against Scotland - we kept the scoreline close - we'll remain a tough nut to crack.

Losing all three also a possibility - 60/40 games suggest even sides. My judgement call though is that I think we will be better, your last point being a key reason why. Our 12 touches the ball once in a match that we lose by five points. Eddie hasn't become a poor coach overnight, I am confident we will get better.

[Random1]

Interesting article in the guardian interviewing Connor O’Shea. A few things about what he’s doing with England.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... fu-england

Anyone got any idea who he’s referring to here?

Identifying and nurturing such X factor players – male and female – is ultimately what it is all about, whether it be with half an eye on the 2023 Rugby World Cup or a decade hence. “Our job is to identify great players. Not stocking fillers, players who can make a difference at the very highest level.” Has he seen any lately? “Oh yeah, absolutely. We’ve a couple of young forwards who helped beat France Under-20s a year ago who I hadn’t seen again until recently.

I was like: ‘Oh my holy goodness, look at them.’ They’re completely different animals. In rugby you need to identify the gems but also to realise that people mature at different rates.”

[notfatcat]

Barbeary could be one of them.

[Raggs]

Barbeary could be one of them.

Nah, Barbeary was an animal before and after.

On the note of Wasps hookers, Tommy Taylor is apparently back to Sale. Shame we had to lose a hooker, but with Oghre and Barbeary, it was inevitable, and I'd rather one of the older guys went, and the academy guys stayed.

[Random1]

The team in last year’s u20 was

England U20:

1 James Whitcombe,
2 Theo Dan,
3 Luke Green,
4 George Hammond,
5 Ben Donnell,
6 JJ Tonks,
7 Richard Capstick,
8 Rusiate Tuima,
9 Sam Maunder (C),
10 Manu Vunipola,
11 Tom Roebuck,
12 Max Ojomoh,
13 Connor Doherty,
14 Gabriel Hamer-Webb,
15 Josh Hodge
Replacements:
16 Ben Atkins,
17 Emmanuel Iyogun,
18 Harvey Beaton,
19 Hugh Tizard,
20 Jack Clement,
21 Jack Van Poortvliet,
22 George Barton,
23 Freddie Steward

[Random1]

Oh, and I hope tizard is a mercurial winger so that his nickname is tizard the wizard.

[Margin__Walker]

Ben Donnell (18 games) and Capstick (16 games) getting plenty of Prem gametime.

[JM2K6]

Oh, and I hope tizard is a mercurial winger so that his nickname is tizard the wizard.

Big ugly lock. Hammond's pretty highly rated but Tizard's been ahead of him at Quins so far.

[Raggs]

The team in last year’s u20 was

England U20:

1 James Whitcombe,
2 Theo Dan,
3 Luke Green,
4 George Hammond,
5 Ben Donnell,
6 JJ Tonks,
7 Richard Capstick,
8 Rusiate Tuima,
9 Sam Maunder (C),
10 Manu Vunipola,
11 Tom Roebuck,
12 Max Ojomoh,
13 Connor Doherty,
14 Gabriel Hamer-Webb,
15 Josh Hodge
Replacements:
16 Ben Atkins,
17 Emmanuel Iyogun,
18 Harvey Beaton,
19 Hugh Tizard,
20 Jack Clement,
21 Jack Van Poortvliet,
22 George Barton,
23 Freddie Steward

Freddie Steward or Emmanual Iyogun perhaps?

[JM2K6]

Steward's not a forward, though.

[Raggs]

Steward's not a forward, though.

Missed that bit of the quote, just saw the different animals thing. Iyogun and Clement then, think he's got some prem time recently?

[Random1]

Oh, and I hope tizard is a mercurial winger so that his nickname is tizard the wizard.

Big ugly lock. Hammond's pretty highly rated but Tizard's been ahead of him at Quins so far.

Thanks JM - ‘Tizard the ugly lock’ doesn’t rhyme. Shame.

[Random1]

Steward's not a forward, though.

Missed that bit of the quote, just saw the different animals thing. Iyogun and Clement then, think he's got some prem time recently?

Fun highlights reel of Clement. Looks a touch more developed than some of the lads he’s playing

Couple of nice touches/passes in there though. The white Parisse.

[Ovals]

Steward's not a forward, though.

Missed that bit of the quote, just saw the different animals thing. Iyogun and Clement then, think he's got some prem time recently?

Fun highlights reel of Clement. Looks a touch more developed than some of the lads he’s playing

Couple of nice touches/passes in there though. The white Parisse.

Enjoyed that. Thanks for posting.

He's obviously a unit and he'll lose much of that advantage at senior level. But he's pretty quick and showed some lovely ball skills and awareness. Definitely one too look out for.

[notfatcat]

Here's one from the same series for winger Cassius Cleaves

[Oxbow]

Steward's not a forward, though.

Missed that bit of the quote, just saw the different animals thing. Iyogun and Clement then, think he's got some prem time recently?

Iyogun has only played a couple of games for Saints when we had four other looseheads out injured. He more than held his own though and did look a tremendously good prospect.

[Glaston]

"arousal level" wins games


Ah Eddie, what will the media do when you are gone?

[Ovals]

Here's one from the same series for winger Cassius Cleaves

Be interesting to see where he is in a couple of years. Terrific pace and an eye for the gap. And, what a name !!

[SaintK]

Not going all that well at Falcons. Second match in a row cancelled

Newcastle’s Gallagher Premiership game at Worcester on Saturday has been cancelled after the Falcons returned positive results in the latest round of coronavirus testing. It is the second successive league match that Newcastle have had called off due to positive Covid-19 tests, with last weekend’s away fixture against Northampton also being shelved.

[Hal Jordan]

Here's one from the same series for winger Cassius Cleaves

Be interesting to see where he is in a couple of years. Terrific pace and an eye for the gap. And, what a name !!

He has quite clearly stolen his name from a lower card wrestler from the territory days.

[sockwithaticket]

In good news for Wasps, Josh Bassett re-signs.

In meh news, Tommy Taylor is confirmed back to Sale.

[Oxbow]

What happened to Tommy Taylor, I thought he was next in line for England a few years ago.

[Happyhooker]

What happened to Tommy Taylor, I thought he was next in line for England a few years ago.

Broke at the worst time, I think twice.