I commend NPR for not having a Harry and Meghan thread!!

[Slick]

I knew this thread was a coiled spring waiting for someone (OS, obvs) to start it.

[Slick]

He was certainly my first guess due to age(and a bit of form) - sadly this genie can’t be put back in the bottle neither side is going to come out of this well, one mans curiosity as to whom the child will resemble is another mans racist rant...

I can easily see how it would be a naive/innocent question but also it depends on the context and it would be easy to take the wrong way. Maybe they sounded concerned when they asked, who knows.

My missus is Turkish and before our son was born, my mum was quite curious as to how 'dark' he would turn out. I know she didn't mean anything negative by it but I'm not sure I would say the same if someone else was asking.

One of the issues is we don't even know what was said or by whom, let alone have any substantiation of it. Even for Megan, it's purely hearsay through Harry (from what she said). Until that is clear, it is impossible to make any critical remarks about it either way, or should be. Unfortunately, it seems to be a given in modern discourse to be able to state something as fact that is far from it, and not to be picked up on it. Once people then put further layers of interpretation and meaning on top of those supposed "facts" you then have supposedly unimpeachable arguments running which are really anything but. It's a real issue, of which this is only an example. Unfortunately it creates arguments which resemble Bimbo and Mullet going at each other on the old PR. Incidentally, if you think of looking at their thread on this topic: don't. It's just a reminder of how tedious that place became as a result of a handful of posters.

Overall, for me Megan and Harry do not come out of this well. However, for balance their comments on the difficulties of living in the Royals' gilded cage and the limelight that comes with it felt very real and understandable. Good on them for getting out of it; although that does not explain at all why they now want to rake it all up again, unless you look at it cynically. A great shame all round.

From a Spiked article I thought was quite good:

Oprah chat came wrapped in blather about Meghan telling ‘her truth’. In reality this was a coronation of two leading members of the neo-aristocracy. Harry and Meghan have successfully positioned themselves as key figureheads of the new feudalism in which cultural power resides in the hands of small numbers of very wealthy people around Silicon Valley and Hollywood, and in which the little people’s role is to receive moral instruction from the likes of Facebook, Netflix, Oprah, Harry, Meghan… That’s the great irony of Harry and Meghan juxtaposing themselves to the monarchy, and being witlessly cheered on by the left for doing so: these two behave in a far more old-world monarchical fashion than the queen does. Their punishment of the disobedient media; their conviction that they must instruct the rest of us on how to live, how to travel, how many kids to have; their eye-wateringly arrogant mission of ‘building compassion around the world’ – they make the actual British monarchy, politically neutered by centuries of political progress, seem positively meek in comparison.

What we see in Harry and Meghan is the strange, contradictory power of the victim industry. Power today often comes wrapped in claims of suffering. Publicly professed weakness is a precursor to dictating to everyone else that they must open up, change their attitudes, become more ‘aware’. Victimhood is the soapbox from which the new elites, whether lip-trembling politicians or ‘suffering’ celebs, presume to instruct society at large about the right way to think, emote, feel, be. This is why Meghan’s confession of suicidal thoughts was so important. It felt manipulative. It was in essence a declaration of emotional authenticity. Meghan has the right kind of emotional history to inherit the crown of the post-Diana world – that was the message.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/0 ... an-markle/

[robmatic]

Wait, do Brits not identify people with one black parent as black? That's news to me.

We seem more likely to describe people as mixed race.

The 'one drop' rule is quite American, I thought.

It's a bit more than one drop. Photoshopped media shots aside, she looks darker skinned than white people and has a black mother, so it's a weird argument.

Maybe you are a bit more committed to white racial purity than I am, but based on her skin tone she could be one of or a combination of any number of ethnicities.

[GogLais]

I am feeling a bit of "I told you so". I used to say to Ms GL that I gave it five years before the pressure of it all drove Meghan and Harry apart, what I didn't foresee was that the fracture would be between Harry and his family. Anyway, who put the h in Megan?

[Insane_Homer]

... someone (i.e. Megan) has made some pretty brutal accusations of racism against another public figure. There is no supporting evidence, but it seems to have been completely accepted by so many people. Furthermore, no evidence has been given, no names have been named and she clearly has an axe to grind and a lot to gain by making these accusations.

Clearly you've not taken Openside's Intro to arguing on the Internet 101 course from his school of hard knocks yet?

frankly it’s on you to disprove my statement rather than me to prove it!

To paraphrase

frankly it’s on [them] to disprove [her] statement rather than [her] to prove it!

[JM2K6]

We seem more likely to describe people as mixed race.

The 'one drop' rule is quite American, I thought.

It's a bit more than one drop. Photoshopped media shots aside, she looks darker skinned than white people and has a black mother, so it's a weird argument.

Maybe you are a bit more committed to white racial purity than I am, but based on her skin tone she could be one of or a combination of any number of ethnicities.

Well, that's a shitty response, thanks.

Now we've got Brendan O'Neill being unironically quoted, I'm out.

[sockwithaticket]

He was certainly my first guess due to age(and a bit of form) - sadly this genie can’t be put back in the bottle neither side is going to come out of this well, one mans curiosity as to whom the child will resemble is another mans racist rant...

I can easily see how it would be a naive/innocent question but also it depends on the context and it would be easy to take the wrong way. Maybe they sounded concerned when they asked, who knows.

My missus is Turkish and before our son was born, my mum was quite curious as to how 'dark' he would turn out. I know she didn't mean anything negative by it but I'm not sure I would say the same if someone else was asking.

One of the issues is we don't even know what was said or by whom, let alone have any substantiation of it. Even for Megan, it's purely hearsay through Harry (from what she said). Until that is clear, it is impossible to make any critical remarks about it either way, or should be. Unfortunately, it seems to be a given in modern discourse to be able to state something as fact that is far from it, and not to be picked up on it. Once people then put further layers of interpretation and meaning on top of those supposed "facts" you then have supposedly unimpeachable arguments running which are really anything but. It's a real issue, of which this is only an example. Unfortunately it creates arguments which resemble Bimbo and Mullet going at each other on the old PR. Incidentally, if you think of looking at their thread on this topic: don't. It's just a reminder of how tedious that place became as a result of a handful of posters.

Overall, for me Megan and Harry do not come out of this well. However, for balance their comments on the difficulties of living in the Royals' gilded cage and the limelight that comes with it felt very real and understandable. Good on them for getting out of it; although that does not explain at all why they now want to rake it all up again, unless you look at it cynically. A great shame all round.

Well, they did say they were going to look to be financially independent, I'd be surprised if they didn't get some sort of fee for the Oprah interview.

[ASMO]

I am of the school that if it smells like bullshit, it is likely to be bullshit.

2 people who claim that they want to be out of the spotlight to protect themselves and and their family from the 'toxic' situation created by the press in the UK go on air baring all, making massively unsubstantiated accusations of racism, throw in the suicide word on one of the biggest TV shows in the world, knowing this will get global ratings and headlines worldwide? do me a favour, this is a cheap grubby exercise in money making. They will make many many millions off this and subsequent appearances, potential book deals etc.

Lets not forget there is an unsubstantiated claim of bullying being levelled at MM by Palace staff that is allegedly being investigted by Palace authorities. There is just so much smoke and mirrors here on both sides that none of it is believable really, personally i wish them well, but also happy for them to fuck off out of the front pages as they hold no interest for me, and i also feel the same about the royal family.

[Insane_Homer]

Well, they did say they were going to look to be financially independent, I'd be surprised if they didn't get some sort of fee for the Oprah interview.

Surprise! They were not paid. A simple google could've told you that.

[Slick]

It's a bit more than one drop. Photoshopped media shots aside, she looks darker skinned than white people and has a black mother, so it's a weird argument.

Maybe you are a bit more committed to white racial purity than I am, but based on her skin tone she could be one of or a combination of any number of ethnicities.

Well, that's a shitty response, thanks.

Now we've got Brendan O'Neill being unironically quoted, I'm out.

I'd never heard of him before I checked if that comment was aimed at me. But you're right, no point in listening to other points of view, I'll delete my post shortly

[Lemoentjie]

How on Earth can she be black? Her father is white, and her mother is black. She's just as white as she is black.

[JM2K6]

Maybe you are a bit more committed to white racial purity than I am, but based on her skin tone she could be one of or a combination of any number of ethnicities.

Well, that's a shitty response, thanks.

Now we've got Brendan O'Neill being unironically quoted, I'm out.

I'd never heard of him before I checked if that comment was aimed at me. But you're right, no point in listening to other points of view, I'll delete my post shortly

Fair enough, Slick, I thought you knew him already.

He's a weapons-grade arsehole from the ever-further-right wing (who hilariously masquerades as left wing) who knows all about grievance culture because it's his stock in trade. He is a full on cunt with nothing worthwhile to say. It's of no surprise whatsoever that he immediately makes this a "right vs left" thing and goes full culture-warrior, because that's how he earns his money. He is a genuine troll. Or a massive foreheaded shitgibbon, to be more accurate.

But hey, at least it's temporarily distracted him from his recent line in screeching about cricitism of lockdown skeptics and generally going down the same path as all the other CRY FREEDOM!!! culture warriors on the right.

[Sandstorm]

Lets not forget there is an unsubstantiated claim of bullying being levelled at MM by Palace staff that is allegedly being investigated by Palace authorities.

Uppity

[Ovals]

Meghan is black in an American definition we’ve imported as part of their wider culture wars. Not sure Brits would have identified her as such without prompting

Wait, do Brits not identify people with one black parent as black? That's news to me.

Do Brits not identify people with one white parent as white?

Come to that, why identify them as any colour ?

[sockwithaticket]

Well, they did say they were going to look to be financially independent, I'd be surprised if they didn't get some sort of fee for the Oprah interview.

Surprise! They were not paid. A simple google could've told you that.

Well, that's unwelcome. The sooner they're fully financially independent the better. Unless it's to announce a republic I'd rather the Royals weren't occupying the headlines.

Google it? I can't pretend to give that much of a shit. I'm just time waste posting during portions of Zoom calls I don't have to pay attention to, if someone wants to do the leg work and correct my assumptions for me, so much the better.

[Insane_Homer]

Lets not forget there is an unsubstantiated claim of bullying being levelled at MM by Palace staff that is allegedly being investigated by Palace authorities.

Uppity

Just take the fucking picture!

[Lemoentjie]

Meghan is black in an American definition we’ve imported as part of their wider culture wars. Not sure Brits would have identified her as such without prompting

Wait, do Brits not identify people with one black parent as black? That's news to me.

Do Brits not identify people with one white parent as white?

Come to that, why identify them as any colour ?

Maybe he identifies anyone with a drop of non-white blood as black?

[GogLais]

Something else that struck me - she spoke of going to the head of B'ham Palace HR to seek help with her mental health problems, which I'm willing to believe that she had, and being denied assistance. Surely BP HR deals with hiring and firing the minions, not the personal problems of the Royal Family, their first port of call would be their personal physician.

As regards Archie's title or lack of and the provision of security, there's an article about that The Times today. It's hard to summarise it fairly but at the least it doesn't seem as simple as M & H suggested. I'm sure that Meghan has suffered from racism, given the state of the world it would be surprising if she hadn't. However, I don't think they help themselves by what seems like exaggeration. Edit - I didn't mean that their account of racism is an exaggerated.

[Calculon]

She's pale for a black (and very attractive imo), but what I find interesting is that it seems non white Brits seem to identify with her and feel sympathetic towards her, while white brits, especially older ones, are pretty antagonistic and dismissive of claims of racism.

I haven't seen the interview but fwiw I don't have any difficulty believing Harry's accusations that a member, or members, of his family were concerned that his child would turn out too dark.

The American media's reaction is also pretty interesting, maybe a bit of schadenfreude and good opportunity for them to portray another country as a bit backwards and racist.

[GogLais]

How on Earth can she be black? Her father is white, and her mother is black. She's just as white as she is black.

I assume the argument is that people who are partly black suffer at least some of the racism that entirely black people suffer. I can understand that.

[Lobby]

Something else that struck me - she spoke of going to the head of B'ham Palace HR to seek help with her mental health problems, which I'm willing to believe that she had, and being denied assistance. Surely BP HR deals with hiring and firing the minions, not the personal problems of the Royal Family, their first port of call would be their personal physician.

As regards Archie's title or lack of and the provision of security, there's an article about that The Times today. It's hard to summarise it fairly but at the least it doesn't seem as simple as M & H suggested. I'm sure that Meghan has suffered from racism, given the state of the world it would be surprising if she hadn't. However, I don't think they help themselves by what seems like exaggeration. Edit - I didn't mean that their account of racism is an exaggerated.

Her husband is also a patron of Heads Together, a charity that ‘combines a campaign to tackle stigma and change the conversation on mental health with fundraising for a series of innovative new mental health services’. It also seeks to provide ‘mental health programmes to ensure that the right help is available to anyone seeking mental health support, wherever they are and whenever they need it’.

And yet when his wife wanted mental health support he apparently didn’t think to make use of all his contacts to provide her with access to the support she needed, but instead left her to talk to HR, which as you say is there to deal with employees, and not family members.

[Paddington Bear]

My take on it:
- The tabloids are a disgrace and have more than dog whistled about Meghan
- Meghan, by her own admission, did not have a full understanding and/or did not fully prepare for life as a working member of the Royal family. Stuff like not knowing to curtsey to the Queen, keeping out of politics etc should not have come as a shock. Royal protocol and the constitutional status of the British Royals can be antiquated and stuffy, but can also be understood after 20 minutes on wikipedia.
- The actions of the tabloids should not have come as a shock to Meghan or Harry and I am a little surprised that it seems to have done. Doesn't excuse it, but we all knew it would happen.
- Fundamentally Meghan did not come into the Royal Family with her eyes open to what it would entail, and it seems her preconception of what it would be has collided very hard with reality. There's blame here for tabloid editors, the punters that keep them in business, Harry who really should have known better, and Meghan who could have done a bit more research.
- I sense an undercurrent of resentment at their different treatment to William, Kate and their kids. I think race plays an element in tabloid stories, but Meghan having to walk behind them at events, William's kids being afforded more publicity and titles etc is fairly easily explained by the fact that they are the direct line of succession. Crying unfair at that is just silly.
- There was a lot of bollocks in the interview and the lines such as about Archie's skin colour were clearly pre-planned to cause maximum harm. Oprah threw softball after softball at her friend.
- They are aiming at an American audience. I think they know they've burned their bridges to the UK and don't really care. If they're going to live a celeb lifestyle (I'm certain Meghan does, not so clear about Harry), why wouldn't you appeal to your largest market? This particularly struck me with nonsense like the private wedding, that anyone in the UK would know straight away was rubbish, but the sudden elopement is such a cliche of American TV that I assume they'll eat it up.

[GogLais]

My take on it:
- The tabloids are a disgrace and have more than dog whistled about Meghan
- Meghan, by her own admission, did not have a full understanding and/or did not fully prepare for life as a working member of the Royal family. Stuff like not knowing to curtsey to the Queen, keeping out of politics etc should not have come as a shock. Royal protocol and the constitutional status of the British Royals can be antiquated and stuffy, but can also be understood after 20 minutes on wikipedia.
- The actions of the tabloids should not have come as a shock to Meghan or Harry and I am a little surprised that it seems to have done. Doesn't excuse it, but we all knew it would happen.
- Fundamentally Meghan did not come into the Royal Family with her eyes open to what it would entail, and it seems her preconception of what it would be has collided very hard with reality. There's blame here for tabloid editors, the punters that keep them in business, Harry who really should have known better, and Meghan who could have done a bit more research.
- I sense an undercurrent of resentment at their different treatment to William, Kate and their kids. I think race plays an element in tabloid stories, but Meghan having to walk behind them at events, William's kids being afforded more publicity and titles etc is fairly easily explained by the fact that they are the direct line of succession. Crying unfair at that is just silly.
- There was a lot of bollocks in the interview and the lines such as about Archie's skin colour were clearly pre-planned to cause maximum harm. Oprah threw softball after softball at her friend.
- They are aiming at an American audience. I think they know they've burned their bridges to the UK and don't really care. If they're going to live a celeb lifestyle (I'm certain Meghan does, not so clear about Harry), why wouldn't you appeal to your largest market? This particularly struck me with nonsense like the private wedding, that anyone in the UK would know straight away was rubbish, but the sudden elopement is such a cliche of American TV that I assume they'll eat it up.

Wouldn't argue with any of that.

[Hugo]

Recently read the book on Diana by Ken Wharfe (her police bodyguard) and it paints a picture of Diana as a decent person and caring mother but an emotional mess, needy and a drama queen. Clearly Wharfe had a lot of affection for her but the overriding impression you get is that she was just not cut our for the rigors of royal life, was not intellectually up to scratch and was not a team player. Too young, too inexperienced and too sensitive. Of course it didn't help that Charles was unfaithful to her but whether he was or not I don't think it would have made her any better suited to her role as Princess of Wales.

This looks like one of those cases where history is repeating itself - it seems like Harry has married someone who is similarly unsuited to Royal life and the good thing is they recognised it at an early stage and rather than try and force a square peg into a round hole they cut themselves loose. More power to them.

All that said I just think it seems incredibly crass and unseemly to be airing your families dirty laundry in public like this. Maybe they felt they had to get their version of events into the public sphere but this interview has undoubtedly done a lot of damage to the Royal Family, the institution that has made them relevant in the first place.

[Insane_Homer]

very well thought out response from Grandma

[SaintK]

Oh Shit

You complete arse, look what you've done!!
Two sodding pages already

[Insane_Homer]

Delete this thread.

Don't tempt me.

[Hugo]

- Meghan, by her own admission, did not have a full understanding and/or did not fully prepare for life as a working member of the Royal family. Stuff like not knowing to curtsey to the Queen, keeping out of politics etc should not have come as a shock. Royal protocol and the constitutional status of the British Royals can be antiquated and stuffy, but can also be understood after 20 minutes on wikipedia.

This was very interesting admission in my eyes, it makes her look lazy and ignorant. If you are going to marry into the Royal family and move in those circles wouldn't you want to do some homework and study up on it a bit? You can try and pass it off as naivety but I think it demonstrates a very careless, lackadaisical attitude.

Compare and contrast with Kate Middleton who had to endure a very exhaustive vetting process.

[Glaston]

At least the interview has done some decent collateral damage.

Piers Morgan is toast.

[robmatic]

At least the interview has done some decent collateral damage.

Piers Morgan is toast.

He'll no doubt get a huge contract at GB News or something.

[ScarfaceClaw]

At least the interview has done some decent collateral damage.

Piers Morgan is toast. :clap: :clap:

If hacking a dead girls voice mail or photoshopping a picture of soldiers doesn’t finish that media cockroach then this certainly won’t.

[Plato’sCave]

I thought she was Latin American.

[Bullet]

Surely people must know that speculating on a childs colour could lead to cries of offence nowadays.
Preggers the HR woman at work told us she was offended by a friend asking about her bumps gender.

[Ymx]

Something else that struck me - she spoke of going to the head of B'ham Palace HR to seek help with her mental health problems, which I'm willing to believe that she had, and being denied assistance. Surely BP HR deals with hiring and firing the minions, not the personal problems of the Royal Family, their first port of call would be their personal physician.

As regards Archie's title or lack of and the provision of security, there's an article about that The Times today. It's hard to summarise it fairly but at the least it doesn't seem as simple as M & H suggested. I'm sure that Meghan has suffered from racism, given the state of the world it would be surprising if she hadn't. However, I don't think they help themselves by what seems like exaggeration. Edit - I didn't mean that their account of racism is an exaggerated.

I imagine the beef with the title would be to do with Prince Williams kids (other than the oldest boy), getting title of Prince and Princess who were not eligible until the queen stepped in specially.

[Openside]

I knew this thread was a coiled spring waiting for someone (OS, obvs) to start it.

I started a thread congratulating NPR for not having one

[Kawazaki]

What has worried me the most about this whole situation is how someone (i.e. Megan) has made some pretty brutal accusations of racism against another public figure. There is no supporting evidence, but it seems to have been completely accepted by so many people. Furthermore, no evidence has been given, no names have been named and she clearly has an axe to grind and a lot to gain by making these accusations.

Once you've been called a racist, what is your defence, if innocent? There is none, as you can't prove yourself innocent just as the accuser can't prove guilt. But these days it is really skewed in favour of the accuser.

Or even better, chuck the racist bomb out there and don't be specific who it was. That way everyone gets tarnished.

Job done.

[Openside]

Well, they did say they were going to look to be financially independent, I'd be surprised if they didn't get some sort of fee for the Oprah interview.

Surprise! They were not paid. A simple google could've told you that.

That maybe true or it maybe creative accounting it wouldn’t be the first time

[Openside]

Oh Shit

You complete arse, look what you've done!!
Two sodding pages already

THAT WAS THE JOKE

[Muttonbird]

And just like magic, everyone forgot about Andrew

Tbf I don’t think anyone has gotten about him. Shagging a 17 year old isn’t illegal it’s just creepy. We won’t find out whether this young lady was trafficked (and whether he knew) until Ghislaine goes on trial I suspect...

As if you couldn't stoop any lower.

[stemoc]

Without being completely tasteless, the skin colour of Archie was never in doubt. Megan looks white ffs, and Harry is white. I'd like to think that the royal family know about mixing colours.

NOT SURE IF YOU KNOW HOW GENES WORK, SHE MAY NOT HAVE INHERITED HER MOM'S "BLACKNESS", BUT HER KIDS COULD.. its always a 50/50