The Official English Rugby Thread

[Raggs]

Slade injured in training on Monday. Marchant called up as squad cover
Sounds doubtful for Ireland. Shame if true, had one of his best matches for England last weekend

He's travelling to Ireland, so they've clearly not written him off.

[JM2K6]

Great, so we lose Marchant for basically no reason. We already have Odogwu and Lawrence ready to play 13, and Daly can play there too. Absolutely no reason to call up a 4th option just to hold tackle bags for the final game of the tournament.

[SaintK]

Great, so we lose Marchant for basically no reason. We already have Odogwu and Lawrence ready to play 13, and Daly can play there too. Absolutely no reason to call up a 4th option just to hold tackle bags for the final game of the tournament.

Does sound a bit overkill if Slade is actually travelling!

[Raggs]

Great, so we lose Marchant for basically no reason. We already have Odogwu and Lawrence ready to play 13, and Daly can play there too. Absolutely no reason to call up a 4th option just to hold tackle bags for the final game of the tournament.

Odogwu apparently hasn't been playing due to a shoulder complaint, I don't know if that's holding true for this game as well, but it may explain calling up cover.

[JM2K6]

Great, so we lose Marchant for basically no reason. We already have Odogwu and Lawrence ready to play 13, and Daly can play there too. Absolutely no reason to call up a 4th option just to hold tackle bags for the final game of the tournament.

Odogwu apparently hasn't been playing due to a shoulder complaint, I don't know if that's holding true for this game as well, but it may explain calling up cover.

That would make more sense.

[Random1]

I know absolutely nothing about Martin. Anyone seen him play? As Eddie might be throwing him in there.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... eland.html

[Oxbow]

Eddie and his mind games eh, what a character.

[Ovals]

I know absolutely nothing about Martin. Anyone seen him play? As Eddie might be throwing him in there.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugby ... eland.html

I've not seen him play - which isn't surprising since he's only played about 7 rimes in the Prem. I've heard him described as a 'massive unit' or a 'Beast'. 19 years old, 6'6"and about 120kg - plays Backrow or Lock.

[Ovals]

So, no Martin in the squad -Daly gets tthe 13 gig, Marchant on the bench. Odogwu wastes another week and nowhasn't played for 2 months.

15. Max Malins (Bristol Bears, 7 caps)

14. Anthony Watson (Bath, 50 caps)

13. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 51 caps)

12. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 92 caps) (C)

11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 65 caps)

10. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 76 caps)

9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 108 caps)

1. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 66 caps)

2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 30 caps)

3. Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 43 caps)

4. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 47 caps)

5. Charlie Ewels (Bath, 20 caps)

6. Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 22 caps)

7. Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 32 caps)

8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 60 caps)

Finishers

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 58 caps)

17. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps)

18. Will Stuart (Bath, 11 caps)

19. Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps)

20. Ben Earl (Bristol Bears, 12 caps)

21. Dan Robson (Wasps, 11 caps)

22. Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 5 caps)

23. Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 4 caps)

[sockwithaticket]

I am genuinely very pleased for Luke Cowan-Dickie, he's been excellent and in no way did he deserve to be benched for the Wales game. Glad Eddie's apparently learnt a lesson on that one.

After last week it would have been made to make and non-injury enforce changes really. If he were in better form I 'd have been excited to see Daly get a shot at the 13 jersey, maybe going back there will help re-ignite him. His pace makes him more of a strike runner at 13 than Slade and I do think that's what the Ford-Farrell combo needs

[Paddington Bear]

Theoretically Daly at 13 could go very well. Not convinced it will but still

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, you could argue that he's not the best 13 available, but I still think he's likely to be better there than at 15.

This statement will probably good for a day or two, before Henshaw and Ringrose inevitably eat him alive.

[SaintK]

Yeah, you could argue that he's not the best 13 available, but I still think he's likely to be better there than at 15.

This statement will probably good for a day or two, before Henshaw and Ringrose inevitably eat him alive.

Ringrose is out I thought

[Margin__Walker]

Yeah, you could argue that he's not the best 13 available, but I still think he's likely to be better there than at 15.

This statement will probably good for a day or two, before Henshaw and Ringrose inevitably eat him alive.

Ringrose is out I thought

Fair enough. Not had time to follow much more than the England games this 6n, so missed that.

[ASMO]

Yeah, you could argue that he's not the best 13 available, but I still think he's likely to be better there than at 15.

This statement will probably good for a day or two, before Henshaw and Ringrose inevitably eat him alive.

Elliot "Pea Heart" Daly will miss even more tackles than Slade did.

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah, you could argue that he's not the best 13 available, but I still think he's likely to be better there than at 15.

This statement will probably good for a day or two, before Henshaw and Ringrose inevitably eat him alive.

Elliot "Pea Heart" Daly will miss even more tackles than Slade did.

His defensive issues at fullback largely stem from terrible positioning and rarely putting himself in a situation to make a good one. Dunno if he'll be better than Slade given his current form, but he'll certainly not miss as many vital ones as from fullback.

[JM2K6]

As a 13, Daly's main problems were: bit of a crowbar sometimes, dodgy decision making, and being a massive hothead at times. He's a strong bloke and seemed to enjoy tackling people when he was in the centres.

He's not been a 13 for years though, so, hey, we're gambling.

[sockwithaticket]

It's been a couple of years since he was a regular, but he played a little for Sarries there last year and for Wasps the year before, although he was played more on the win to accommodate England. Probably enough to keep his hand in having spent most of his career there.

Not expecting much, though. He's been a long way from his best for a while and not all of that is attributable to learning how to be a 15 at the top level.

[Ovals]

Some good news for Wasps

Skipper Joe Launchbury starts, while England hopeful Alfie Barbeary is back, named on the bench.

I hope Odogwu isn't too broken when he returns from the England camp - albeit he's probably forgotten how to play by now.

[sockwithaticket]

Some good news for Wasps

Skipper Joe Launchbury starts, while England hopeful Alfie Barbeary is back, named on the bench.

I hope Odogwu isn't too broken when he returns from the England camp - albeit he's probably forgotten how to play by now.

Full team


A little surprised to see Gopperth at 10. That hasn't happened in a while. Umaga and Willis jr. missing out on the 23 entirely is also a bit eye brow raising. The latter has played a lot of rugby recently due to back row injuries and is still pretty young, so maybe just giving him a break. Umaga isn't at his best, but he' been improving. Apparently Sopoaga is also fit now, but just not being selected.

Brookes and Launch back is big for the pack. Hopefully Launchbury has his usual transformative impact on the team and we finally pick up a worthwhile win (scraping past Worcester counts in league points only).

Didn't see anything about Wolstenholme coming in for Porter. Injury again? Can't see the sense in chopping and changing the 9 after so much disruption in that position recently unless forced too.


Falcons squad for tonight




Found this on Odogwu in the Cov Telegraph

“We are really pleased at the way he is going," said Jones. "Some players need a period of adaption and he is a much better player now. If he keeps working hard on his game and keeps attending to areas of his game that he needs to do to be a Test player he is going to be a great prospect. So we are really pleased with the way he is going. But for this game given the context of the game against Ireland where it is going to be a huge aerial game we feel that Joe Marchant is better coming off the bench for us."

Which reads to me - as a fuming Wasps supporter - like Eddie called up a player he had no intention of playing into a reduced squad and after two months with the guy hasn't been able to get him ready to even come off the bench in a test match to the extent that a player who hasn't been involved in the 6 Nations prep at all is better placed to do so...

[JM2K6]

Eddie's been a full-on twat again, mind:

For the trip to Ireland on Saturday Jones has made just one change, recalling Elliot Daly and restoring him to his natural position of outside-centre for the first time in five years with Henry Slade ruled out through injury. Jones acknowledged that Daly – part of the Saracens contingent who had not played for two months before the start of the tournament – has struggled for form but, when asked if his confidence had taken a knock, the head coach lashed out.

“I’ve never seen confidence walk through the door, so I don’t know what confidence is,” he said. “Players might think differently, they might work a bit harder, they might work a little bit less. I don’t think there is any such thing as confidence, you either think rightly or you think wrongly, and the wrong time you start to listen to the poison that’s written in the media, that rat poison gets into players’ heads. We try to keep it out of their head. We try to spray all that rat poison that you try to put in and get it out of their head, so we are always working hard to keep it out of their heads. It keeps me busy, mate.”

He also think it'll be an attritional game, so expect England to kick the ball away all day long to a 4-point defeat where we throw no punches until the 76th minute...

[Ovals]

Some good news for Wasps

Skipper Joe Launchbury starts, while England hopeful Alfie Barbeary is back, named on the bench.

I hope Odogwu isn't too broken when he returns from the England camp - albeit he's probably forgotten how to play by now.

Full team


A little surprised to see Gopperth at 10. That hasn't happened in a while. Umaga and Willis jr. missing out on the 23 entirely is also a bit eye brow raising. The latter has played a lot of rugby recently due to back row injuries and is still pretty young, so maybe just giving him a break. Umaga isn't at his best, but he' been improving. Apparently Sopoaga is also fit now, but just not being selected.

Brookes and Launch back is big for the pack. Hopefully Launchbury has his usual transformative impact on the team and we finally pick up a worthwhile win (scraping past Worcester counts in league points only).

Didn't see anything about Wolstenholme coming in for Porter. Injury again? Can't see the sense in chopping and changing the 9 after so much disruption in that position recently unless forced too.


Falcons squad for tonight




Found this on Odogwu in the Cov Telegraph

“We are really pleased at the way he is going," said Jones. "Some players need a period of adaption and he is a much better player now. If he keeps working hard on his game and keeps attending to areas of his game that he needs to do to be a Test player he is going to be a great prospect. So we are really pleased with the way he is going. But for this game given the context of the game against Ireland where it is going to be a huge aerial game we feel that Joe Marchant is better coming off the bench for us."

Which reads to me - as a fuming Wasps supporter - like Eddie called up a player he had no intention of playing into a reduced squad and after two months with the guy hasn't been able to get him ready to even come off the bench in a test match to the extent that a player who hasn't been involved in the 6 Nations prep at all is better placed to do so...

Utterly ridiculous treatment of Odogwu. He was in brilliant form but now hasn't played for 2 months. Bringing in a player, at the last minute, who hasn't been involved with the squad, and playing him ahead of Odogwu simply demonstrates how poorly he's been managed. Wasps must be very frustrated with the whole thing.

[sockwithaticket]

Some good news for Wasps



I hope Odogwu isn't too broken when he returns from the England camp - albeit he's probably forgotten how to play by now.

Spoiler

Show

Full team


A little surprised to see Gopperth at 10. That hasn't happened in a while. Umaga and Willis jr. missing out on the 23 entirely is also a bit eye brow raising. The latter has played a lot of rugby recently due to back row injuries and is still pretty young, so maybe just giving him a break. Umaga isn't at his best, but he' been improving. Apparently Sopoaga is also fit now, but just not being selected.

Brookes and Launch back is big for the pack. Hopefully Launchbury has his usual transformative impact on the team and we finally pick up a worthwhile win (scraping past Worcester counts in league points only).

Didn't see anything about Wolstenholme coming in for Porter. Injury again? Can't see the sense in chopping and changing the 9 after so much disruption in that position recently unless forced too.


Falcons squad for tonight

Found this on Odogwu in the Cov Telegraph

“We are really pleased at the way he is going," said Jones. "Some players need a period of adaption and he is a much better player now. If he keeps working hard on his game and keeps attending to areas of his game that he needs to do to be a Test player he is going to be a great prospect. So we are really pleased with the way he is going. But for this game given the context of the game against Ireland where it is going to be a huge aerial game we feel that Joe Marchant is better coming off the bench for us."

Which reads to me - as a fuming Wasps supporter - like Eddie called up a player he had no intention of playing into a reduced squad and after two months with the guy hasn't been able to get him ready to even come off the bench in a test match to the extent that a player who hasn't been involved in the 6 Nations prep at all is better placed to do so...

Utterly ridiculous treatment of Odogwu. He was in brilliant form but now hasn't played for 2 months. Bringing in a player, at the last minute, who hasn't been involved with the squad, and playing him ahead of Odogwu simply demonstrates how poorly he's been managed. Wasps must be very frustrated with the whole thing.

He was apparently given the choice to go back to Wasps the other week, but didn't due to a shoulder complaint. Personally I doubt that a little. It might be a bit tin foil hat, but various players he's coached, from Giteau to Hask to Youngs have mentioned in interviews I've seen how Eddie tests players with things that are ostensibly a choice, but only have one right option. "Paolo maaate, how are ya? Fancy going back to Wasps for a bit of game time, mate?" "Ummm... no?" "Good call, mate, good call. Stick around here and hold some more tackle bags, we'll make you into a test match animal, mate."

[sockwithaticket]

Eddie's been a full-on twat again, mind:

For the trip to Ireland on Saturday Jones has made just one change, recalling Elliot Daly and restoring him to his natural position of outside-centre for the first time in five years with Henry Slade ruled out through injury. Jones acknowledged that Daly – part of the Saracens contingent who had not played for two months before the start of the tournament – has struggled for form but, when asked if his confidence had taken a knock, the head coach lashed out.

“I’ve never seen confidence walk through the door, so I don’t know what confidence is,” he said. “Players might think differently, they might work a bit harder, they might work a little bit less. I don’t think there is any such thing as confidence, you either think rightly or you think wrongly, and the wrong time you start to listen to the poison that’s written in the media, that rat poison gets into players’ heads. We try to keep it out of their head. We try to spray all that rat poison that you try to put in and get it out of their head, so we are always working hard to keep it out of their heads. It keeps me busy, mate.”

He also think it'll be an attritional game, so expect England to kick the ball away all day long to a 4-point defeat where we throw no punches until the 76th minute...

Funny that the media are never a problem when exaggerating England's successes...

I was looking forward to the match, but I'd forgotten about the Away Game Template™. Thank you for reminding me to moderate expectations accordingly.

[Margin__Walker]

Isn't he now earning a decent wedge for being the the wider squad in game weekends?

May have been more than happy to stick around.

[sockwithaticket]

I know they agreed to share fees through the whole squad rather than just those in the match 23 getting them, but not sure of the practicalities that govern eligibility.

[JM2K6]

Odogwu's career was drifting and he's only really turned things round this season, so I doubt he's at all worried about not having played in the 6N.

[Raggs]

Odogwu's career was drifting and he's only really turned things round this season, so I doubt he's at all worried about not having played in the 6N.

My feelings too. He's just been exposed to the top level, new coaches, new ideas, and most importantly, absolute fecking professionals that push themselves to extremes (I'm sure there's some just at Wasps and every club, but England will be full of them).

1 international window without any gametime isn't an issue for me, it's when it starts getting into multiples (Obano etc) that I start to feel it becomes a waste.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Eddie's been a full-on twat again, mind:

For the trip to Ireland on Saturday Jones has made just one change, recalling Elliot Daly and restoring him to his natural position of outside-centre for the first time in five years with Henry Slade ruled out through injury. Jones acknowledged that Daly – part of the Saracens contingent who had not played for two months before the start of the tournament – has struggled for form but, when asked if his confidence had taken a knock, the head coach lashed out.

“I’ve never seen confidence walk through the door, so I don’t know what confidence is,” he said. “Players might think differently, they might work a bit harder, they might work a little bit less. I don’t think there is any such thing as confidence, you either think rightly or you think wrongly, and the wrong time you start to listen to the poison that’s written in the media, that rat poison gets into players’ heads. We try to keep it out of their head. We try to spray all that rat poison that you try to put in and get it out of their head, so we are always working hard to keep it out of their heads. It keeps me busy, mate.”

He also think it'll be an attritional game, so expect England to kick the ball away all day long to a 4-point defeat where we throw no punches until the 76th minute...

Funny that the media are never a problem when exaggerating England's successes...

I was looking forward to the match, but I'd forgotten about the Away Game Template™. Thank you for reminding me to moderate expectations accordingly.

Hopefully he's just saying Scotland try to play the ball and Ireland shut them down, France play with power and pace and Ireland shut them down, so there's a reality to playing Ireland that means you cannot just assume you can get pace on the game because they're such effective spoilers, or from their pov such good defenders. Surely though the game will be better for England if they start fast and then just keep the foot down.

[sockwithaticket]

I wasn't expecting Odogwu to get much if any game time, but pulling in Marchant from outside the squad to sit on the bench for the final game when the unused guy in the squad is apparently fit enough to be training fully is a bit off. Marchant's definitely a more well rounded player at this stage of their careers and I don't begrudge him getting an opportunity to play. It's just, what have you been doing for the last 2 months if Odogwu isn't ready for this assignment? You don't even necessarily have to use him, Martin sat on the bench for the whole of the Wales game. Daly's already on the field and could cover anyone going down in the back 3 and Lawrence is there to cover centres from the bench.

[Paddington Bear]

Eddie's been a full-on twat again, mind:



He also think it'll be an attritional game, so expect England to kick the ball away all day long to a 4-point defeat where we throw no punches until the 76th minute...

Funny that the media are never a problem when exaggerating England's successes...

I was looking forward to the match, but I'd forgotten about the Away Game Template™. Thank you for reminding me to moderate expectations accordingly.

Hopefully he's just saying Scotland try to play the ball and Ireland shut them down, France play with power and pace and Ireland shut them down, so there's a reality to playing Ireland that means you cannot just assume you can get pace on the game because they're such effective spoilers, or from their pov such good defenders. Surely though the game will be better for England if they start fast and then just keep the foot down.

Ireland have played no rugby all tournament. If we get ahead it will resemble the game in the Autumn, if we go behind it will be horrendous to watch.

[Ovals]

Wasps getting plenty of the ball - but not doing much with it. Getting ridden pretty hard by the ref who couldn't be bothered to check a clear case of conatct with the eye of Bassett which would have certainly had Newcastle down to 14 men. And then they gave away a try with a poor crossfield kick which was run back virtually unchallenged for a try.

They'll have to really up their game to get anything out of this match - hard to see where that inspiration is going to come from.

[sockwithaticket]

What looks to be a fairly obvious gouge attempt caught on camera and seemingly ignored in the Wasps - Falcons game.

Comms later told is being put on report for the citing officer. What in the actual fuck is that about? They had the footage before Gopperth finished taking a pen for a different advantage, so I'm baffled as to why it wasn't being looked at in game. Can hardly argue time elapsed. Of course it will elapse if the officials refuse to check...

[Ovals]

What looks to be a fairly obvious gouge attempt caught on camera and seemingly ignored in the Wasps - Falcons game.

Comms later told is being put on report for the citing officer. What in the actual fuck is that about? They had the footage before Gopperth finished taking a pen for a different advantage, so I'm baffled as to why it wasn't being looked at in game. Can hardly argue time elapsed. Of course it will elapse if the officials refuse to check...

It was a shocker too - the guy will get a very long ban for that - the video evidence is very clear - just needed the ref to view it - ony needed a minute. The ref also gave a try to Newcastle when Launchbury had his arm under the ball and held it up. Wasps really not getting the rub of the green with this ref. Very frustrating.

[sockwithaticket]

What looks to be a fairly obvious gouge attempt caught on camera and seemingly ignored in the Wasps - Falcons game.

Comms later told is being put on report for the citing officer. What in the actual fuck is that about? They had the footage before Gopperth finished taking a pen for a different advantage, so I'm baffled as to why it wasn't being looked at in game. Can hardly argue time elapsed. Of course it will elapse if the officials refuse to check...

It was a shocker too - the guy will get a very long ban for that - the video evidence is very clear - just needed the ref to view it - ony needed a minute. The ref also gave a try to Newcastle when Launchbury had his arm under the ball and held it up. Wasps really not getting the rub of the green with this ref. Very frustrating.

The other angle they showed at half time was damning. Newcastle should be down to 14.

Launchbury has cut a visibly frustrated figure at times tonight. Definitely feels like the rub of the green is with Flacons.

[Ovals]

Great work from Shields there - Wasps back in this - looking quite fired up in the 2nd half.

Barbeary comes on with 34 minutes to play

[sockwithaticket]

Great work from Shields there - Wasps back in this - looking quite fired up in the 2nd half.

Barbeary comes on with 34 minutes to play

Yeah, we look pretty fitred up alright.

[Ovals]

Yellow Card - about time.

Wasps really taking it to Newcastle now.

[Ovals]

Another YC - Falcons down to 13.

[Ovals]

Stupid from Wasps there - should have got the ball out of that maul early with 2 extra men !!