NPR

Neither the Edinburgh game plan or coaching is good enough. Something has to change and I am not sure the coaches are willing or able to install a different game plan.

Time for Duncan Hodge to go, simple as.

Edinburgh have the best backs they've had for a long time and they're regressing.

mos_eisely_ wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 11:49 am Time for Duncan Hodge to go, simple as.

Edinburgh have the best backs they've had for a long time and they're regressing.

It is too simplistic to say only Hodge should go. The overall game plan is RC's call. The forwards are regressing and the game plan is awful.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:40 pm So Edinburgh were beaten at home, and then Glasgow were thrashed.

Both sides full of Scotland internationalists (though to be fair Exeter had a few too).

Really not sure what we’re supposed to think about this.

To be fair, Edinburgh were beaten by the team who are leading the Top14, and the difference was a one howling error.

So, I wouldn't book anything non-refundable for the knockout stages of the next world cup.

so South Africa and Ireland in 3 years time. At least it will be nice for our team to catch up with their cousins and brothers when they play those two - it's a Group of Braai.

World Cup feel to be provided, in all probability, by Tonga (or Samoa) and Spain (or Portugal, Romania, Russia, Belgium, The Netherlands - roughly in that order of likelihood).

Distant third favourites to qualify for the quarters.

Roll on 2027

And 1 guest wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:24 pm Roll on 2027

Aye, forgot to add that even if we somehow make it past Ireland, there is absolutely zero chance of progression beyond the quarters with NZ or France as the opponent.

The thing is by failing to reach the quarters we will be in the third group again in the next draw

And 1 guest wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:29 pm The thing is by failing to reach the quarters we will be in the third group again in the next draw

It's done on world rankings, not past rwc performance. But they decided to pick the start of this year due to the pandemic.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:32 pm

And 1 guest wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:29 pm The thing is by failing to reach the quarters we will be in the third group again in the next draw

It's done on world rankings, not past rwc performance. But they decided to pick the start of this year due to the pandemic.

I know but don't RWC results carry extra ranking points? We really need to find a way to beat Ireland and Wales regularly if we are to cement a top 8 spot.

And 1 guest wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:39 pm

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:32 pm

And 1 guest wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:29 pm The thing is by failing to reach the quarters we will be in the third group again in the next draw

It's done on world rankings, not past rwc performance. But they decided to pick the start of this year due to the pandemic.

I know but don't RWC results carry extra ranking points? We really need to find a way to beat Ireland and Wales regularly if we are to cement a top 8 spot.

Essentially the draw for this tournament was based on the last, with Scotland's ranking of 9 at the time of the draw a direct result of Japan's good tournament. Our ranking has been 8 all year save January 2020, presumably that is why that month was chosen

WR have said that in future years they will change the draw to be closer to the tournament, but I wouldn't hold your breath because they said that last time. We have to go into the tournament with a strong enough ranking that we can survive coming third in our group I guess, either that or learn to beat Ireland.

Edit: to add, it's not as simple as it being based on ranking points because it depends who you play. If, for instance, SA and Ireland were ranked 1 and 2 in the world going into the tournament, we would lose relatively few points compared to losing to Japan, who were ranked 9th when they beat us in Japan.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:22 pm so South Africa and Ireland in 3 years time. At least it will be nice for our team to catch up with their cousins and brothers when they play those two - it's a Group of Braai.

World Cup feel to be provided, in all probability, by Tonga (or Samoa) and Spain (or Portugal, Romania, Russia, Belgium, The Netherlands - roughly in that order of likelihood).

Distant third favourites to qualify for the quarters.

ahh come on everyone. We normally do OK against SA and by then we will be beating Ireland regularly

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:22 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:22 pm so South Africa and Ireland in 3 years time. At least it will be nice for our team to catch up with their cousins and brothers when they play those two - it's a Group of Braai.

World Cup feel to be provided, in all probability, by Tonga (or Samoa) and Spain (or Portugal, Romania, Russia, Belgium, The Netherlands - roughly in that order of likelihood).

Distant third favourites to qualify for the quarters.

ahh come on everyone. We normally do OK against SA and by then we will be beating Ireland regularly

We do 'OK' against SA in the sense that we rarely get a pasting. But the last time we beat them outside of Edinburgh was in 1906. And over recent years we have been competitive in games against them but eventually just get beaten to a pulp through their ridiculous physicality. I don't see that changing between now and 2023.

Ireland...we get two home matches and one away match against them before the RWC - let's see if can get on an even keel. The Autumn Nations Cup match last week was more of the same unfortunately.

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:25 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:22 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:22 pm so South Africa and Ireland in 3 years time. At least it will be nice for our team to catch up with their cousins and brothers when they play those two - it's a Group of Braai.

World Cup feel to be provided, in all probability, by Tonga (or Samoa) and Spain (or Portugal, Romania, Russia, Belgium, The Netherlands - roughly in that order of likelihood).

Distant third favourites to qualify for the quarters.

ahh come on everyone. We normally do OK against SA and by then we will be beating Ireland regularly

We do 'OK' against SA in the sense that we rarely get a pasting. But the last time we beat them outside of Edinburgh was in 1906. And over recent years we have been competitive in games against them but eventually just get beaten to a pulp through their ridiculous physicality. I don't see that changing between now and 2023.

Ireland...we get two home matches and one away match against them before the RWC - let's see if can get on an even keel. The Autumn Nations Cup match last week was more of the same unfortunately.

I had Monty Python come to mind when I read that - tis but a scratch

We’re fecked. I’d have any of the other pools over ours. Pool A - we could get a result against France on a good day. Pool C - Wales are shithouse atm and we know how to beat Australia. Pool D - Japan beat us in Japan, but I’d fancy our chances otherwise. But we won’t beat SA in a RWC pool, and frankly on current evidence the chances of us beating Ireland are even worse.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:12 pm We’re fecked. I’d have any of the other pools over ours. Pool A - we could get a result against France on a good day. Pool C - Wales are shithouse atm and we know how to beat Australia. Pool D - Japan beat us in Japan, but I’d fancy our chances otherwise. But we won’t beat SA in a RWC pool, and frankly on current evidence the chances of us beating Ireland are even worse.

No chance are Scotland bearing France in France. France NZ would've been the worst draw.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:28 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 5:12 pm We’re fecked. I’d have any of the other pools over ours. Pool A - we could get a result against France on a good day. Pool C - Wales are shithouse atm and we know how to beat Australia. Pool D - Japan beat us in Japan, but I’d fancy our chances otherwise. But we won’t beat SA in a RWC pool, and frankly on current evidence the chances of us beating Ireland are even worse.

No chance are Scotland bearing France in France. France NZ would've been the worst draw.

I had forgotten it was in France when I posted that, but I still think we’d have a better chance of beating France than of beating Ireland. I actually think we’d have a better chance of beating literally anyone else apart from NZ. We seem to have developed a massive psychological problem with playing Ireland.

On the bright side I will not have to use too much leave to go on holiday for RWC2023

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 3:25 pm

Slick wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:22 pm

clydecloggie wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:22 pm so South Africa and Ireland in 3 years time. At least it will be nice for our team to catch up with their cousins and brothers when they play those two - it's a Group of Braai.

World Cup feel to be provided, in all probability, by Tonga (or Samoa) and Spain (or Portugal, Romania, Russia, Belgium, The Netherlands - roughly in that order of likelihood).

Distant third favourites to qualify for the quarters.

ahh come on everyone. We normally do OK against SA and by then we will be beating Ireland regularly

We do 'OK' against SA in the sense that we rarely get a pasting. But the last time we beat them outside of Edinburgh was in 1906. And over recent years we have been competitive in games against them but eventually just get beaten to a pulp through their ridiculous physicality. I don't see that changing between now and 2023.

Ireland...we get two home matches and one away match against them before the RWC - let's see if can get on an even keel. The Autumn Nations Cup match last week was more of the same unfortunately.

Alternatively, outside of South Africa, we beat them one time in three.

Bloody English on the BBC site saying this amounts to a pool stage exit. He’s probably right, but the sheer relish with which he puts the boot into Scotland is just ghoulish.

Right. I guess we have 2.5 years to figure out a game plan that doesn’t produce the exact same game v Ireland we seem to get every time we meet now, where we start out looking OK and get bullied into submission.

Just seen a link to Jamie Lyall on Twitter saying Adam Hastings is off to Gloucester after turning down a new deal. I know that having just two teams means players have to move on in order to bring through new guys, but on the heels of the news about Duhan, it does seem as if neither team can catch a break.

The second worst combo I could imagine, zero chance I'm afraid.

Absolute fantasy the we'll be competitive against SA, will lose by 15-20 no bother.

Can't really complain about the draw. It isn't a better draw we need, it's being better at rugby.

Contrary to any evidence I think Scotland vs Ireland will be a great competitive game. SA will squash us.

C T wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:28 pm Can't really complain about the draw. It isn't a better draw we need, it's being better at rugby.

This. Can't win comps without beating the better competition.

C T wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:28 pm Can't really complain about the draw. It isn't a better draw we need, it's being better at rugby.

Contrary to any evidence I think Scotland vs Ireland will be a great competitive game. SA will squash us.

£100 we open with South Africa and then play Ireland 4 days later, while Ireland open to Romania and play us a week later...and we get squashed.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:04 pm Just seen a link to Jamie Lyall on Twitter saying Adam Hastings is off to Gloucester after turning down a new deal. I know that having just two teams means players have to move on in order to bring through new guys, but on the heels of the news about Duhan, it does seem as if neither team can catch a break.

So what's the strategy? Replace with an SQ player (i.e. Healy from Munster) or throw serious dosh at a non-SQ import with a view to mentoring a SQ qualified youngster as second choice? My thinking is the latter is a better option - 10 isn't currently a great worry for Scotland and Glasgow need a serious pick-me-up to get them going again as a serious force. A massive signing at 10 could definitely achieve that.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:18 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:04 pm Just seen a link to Jamie Lyall on Twitter saying Adam Hastings is off to Gloucester after turning down a new deal. I know that having just two teams means players have to move on in order to bring through new guys, but on the heels of the news about Duhan, it does seem as if neither team can catch a break.

So what's the strategy? Replace with an SQ player (i.e. Healy from Munster) or throw serious dosh at a non-SQ import with a view to mentoring a SQ qualified youngster as second choice? My thinking is the latter is a better option - 10 isn't currently a great worry for Scotland and Glasgow need a serious pick-me-up to get them going again as a serious force. A massive signing at 10 could definitely achieve that.

Would love to know the fiscal impact of last 9 months, can't see SRU funding any decent signings.

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:30 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:18 am

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:04 pm Just seen a link to Jamie Lyall on Twitter saying Adam Hastings is off to Gloucester after turning down a new deal. I know that having just two teams means players have to move on in order to bring through new guys, but on the heels of the news about Duhan, it does seem as if neither team can catch a break.

So what's the strategy? Replace with an SQ player (i.e. Healy from Munster) or throw serious dosh at a non-SQ import with a view to mentoring a SQ qualified youngster as second choice? My thinking is the latter is a better option - 10 isn't currently a great worry for Scotland and Glasgow need a serious pick-me-up to get them going again as a serious force. A massive signing at 10 could definitely achieve that.

Would love to know the fiscal impact of last 9 months, can't see SRU funding any decent signings.

Dodson was quoted saying it was forecast as a c. £40m drop in revenues; that was pre-Autumn Nations Cup (+£2m-£2.5m), CVC (+£25m-£30m), government grant (+£15m), government loan (+£5m) and furlough (+?). It also (given it was a revenue drop) did not consider reduced OPEX such as player wage cuts (-£?) and reduced matchday costs (-£?) and costs associated with rugby development such as community coaching, schools rugby etc. (-£?).

I would say the SRU are likely to come out of this in okay shape - the biggest impact is probably that the CVC money will be used to even the keel rather than developing the game which is a huge blow.

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:40 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:30 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:18 am

So what's the strategy? Replace with an SQ player (i.e. Healy from Munster) or throw serious dosh at a non-SQ import with a view to mentoring a SQ qualified youngster as second choice? My thinking is the latter is a better option - 10 isn't currently a great worry for Scotland and Glasgow need a serious pick-me-up to get them going again as a serious force. A massive signing at 10 could definitely achieve that.

Would love to know the fiscal impact of last 9 months, can't see SRU funding any decent signings.

Dodson was quoted saying it was forecast as a c. £40m drop in revenues; that was pre-Autumn Nations Cup (+£2m-£2.5m), CVC (+£25m-£30m), government grant (+£15m), government loan (+£5m) and furlough (+?). It also (given it was a revenue drop) did not consider reduced OPEX such as player wage cuts (-£?) and reduced matchday costs (-£?) and costs associated with rugby development such as community coaching, schools rugby etc. (-£?).

I would say the SRU are likely to come out of this in okay shape - the biggest impact is probably that the CVC money will be used to even the keel rather than developing the game which is a huge blow.

Think they were ring fencing the CVC money weren't they, not using it for running costs during the pandemic. Think they'll come out of it ok, but being able to sell 25.000 tickets for each of three 6 Nations games would be a big help.

Biffer wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:14 am

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:40 am

Caley_Red wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:30 am

Would love to know the fiscal impact of last 9 months, can't see SRU funding any decent signings.

Dodson was quoted saying it was forecast as a c. £40m drop in revenues; that was pre-Autumn Nations Cup (+£2m-£2.5m), CVC (+£25m-£30m), government grant (+£15m), government loan (+£5m) and furlough (+?). It also (given it was a revenue drop) did not consider reduced OPEX such as player wage cuts (-£?) and reduced matchday costs (-£?) and costs associated with rugby development such as community coaching, schools rugby etc. (-£?).

I would say the SRU are likely to come out of this in okay shape - the biggest impact is probably that the CVC money will be used to even the keel rather than developing the game which is a huge blow.

Think they were ring fencing the CVC money weren't they, not using it for running costs during the pandemic. Think they'll come out of it ok, but being able to sell 25.000 tickets for each of three 6 Nations games would be a big help.

I missed that, that is certainly good news from a development perspective. I do wonder what they plan to do with it, but selling the family silver to keep the wolves from the door is never a good plan!

The Scottish Government's £15m was a huge help though, that more or less covers the pro teams for an entire year.

Young Hastings confirmed as signed for Glaws

KingBlairhorn wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:14 am

C T wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:28 pm Can't really complain about the draw. It isn't a better draw we need, it's being better at rugby.

Contrary to any evidence I think Scotland vs Ireland will be a great competitive game. SA will squash us.

£100 we open with South Africa and then play Ireland 4 days later, while Ireland open to Romania and play us a week later...and we get squashed.

Yup. That’ll be the schedule. You can take it to the bank.

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:51 pm Bloody English on the BBC site saying this amounts to a pool stage exit. He’s probably right, but the sheer relish with which he puts the boot into Scotland is just ghoulish.

Which article was this?

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:39 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:51 pm Bloody English on the BBC site saying this amounts to a pool stage exit. He’s probably right, but the sheer relish with which he puts the boot into Scotland is just ghoulish.

Which article was this?

Tom English

Slick wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:57 pm

JM2K6 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:39 pm

Yr Alban wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:51 pm Bloody English on the BBC site saying this amounts to a pool stage exit. He’s probably right, but the sheer relish with which he puts the boot into Scotland is just ghoulish.

Which article was this?

Tom English

Got it, ta. Pretty downbeat!

Just a genuine question here. Surprised by both Scottish pro teams' performances this year. Edinburgh under Cockerill really looked like they were the business last season, up there to win it maybe this (if they or anyone can get passed Leinster). What's happening?

LandOTurk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:23 pm Just a genuine question here. Surprised by both Scottish pro teams' performances this year. Edinburgh under Cockerill really looked like they were the business last season, up there to win it maybe this (if they or anyone can get passed Leinster). What's happening?

Answers on a post card please.

LandOTurk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:23 pm Just a genuine question here. Surprised by both Scottish pro teams' performances this year. Edinburgh under Cockerill really looked like they were the business last season, up there to win it maybe this (if they or anyone can get passed Leinster). What's happening?

Edinburgh and Glasgow have both been gutted by injuries and Scotland not releasing fringe players from a covid bubble so the teams they've put out have been very poor.

I'd expect better performances when internationals return.

Partly exacerbated by Edinburgh's 'classic' (friendly euphemism) game plan which it looks like the competition have worked out.