Stop voting for fucking Tories

[TedMaul]

Meanwhile seeing this shitstain being bundled away like a little dolly made my day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67545868

[shaggy]

Meanwhile seeing this shitstain being bundled away like a little dolly made my day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67545868

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

[fishfoodie]

Meanwhile seeing this shitstain being bundled away like a little dolly made my day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67545868

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

I understood that he was arrested because the rozzers told him to piss off, as is their right, & if he'd done so, he'd still be free, but instead he got lippy & refused to disperse, & so got nicked.

[shaggy]

Meanwhile seeing this shitstain being bundled away like a little dolly made my day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67545868

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

I understood that he was arrested because the rozzers told him to piss off, as is their right, & if he'd done so, he'd still be free, but instead he got lippy & refused to disperse, & so got nicked.

The organisers of the protest told him to stay away. Did the police act on this request or the likelihood of him being a dick?

[sefton]

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

I understood that he was arrested because the rozzers told him to piss off, as is their right, & if he'd done so, he'd still be free, but instead he got lippy & refused to disperse, & so got nicked.

The organisers of the protest told him to stay away. Did the police act on this request or the likelihood of him being a dick?

Half this bored would be at risk of arrest if that lawful.

The other would already be doing time.

[Biffer]

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

I understood that he was arrested because the rozzers told him to piss off, as is their right, & if he'd done so, he'd still be free, but instead he got lippy & refused to disperse, & so got nicked.

The organisers of the protest told him to stay away. Did the police act on this request or the likelihood of him being a dick?

He was apparently issued with an exclusion order after the organisers informed police his presence was likely to cause trouble. Seemingly under the legislation all the right wingers were cheering on when it was brought in.

He didn’t obey that order, so he was arrested.

[TedMaul]

Sit on your own Sefton. Many thanks.

[dpedin]

Gove being interviewed at the covid Enquiry just now. What a slimy supercilious toad he is, gently dropping all his colleagues in the shit whilst damning them with faint praise. However Hugo Keith is nailing him, every time Gove tries to avoid the question or deflect Keith screws him down with the detail and corrects him at every stage. KC has to regularly remind Gove of the sequence of events as Gove tries time and again to cover himself by confusing the dates etc. Gove trying hard to throw in a few curve balls, even said at one point that some thought that the virus was man made and that created a problem for him! Keith refuses to be deflected and is slowly but surely making Gove appear exactly what he is - a lying bastard! Now Gove claiming he hadn't seen docs that were obviously copied into him and as shown on the doc trail. Politics meet informed KC and it is fascinating ... and the KC is well clear on points at the moment! Mesmerizing watch.

[_Os_]

Anyone else getting a growing sense this government is losing whatever control it had? There's quite a lot of loony stuff happening, a very Tory friendly media environment is a lot of the duct tape holding them together. In no particular order.

1. Farage being mobbed at the Tory party conference and dancing with Patel, lots of members making no secret about wanting him as Tory leader, some MPs/ministers saying they wouldn't oppose him joining. Not much focus on this by the media, then Farage is off to do celeb reality TV where everyone is incapable of asking him about his history.

2. Badenoch praising a "memorandum of understanding" with Florida as if it's a trade deal, when it isn't a trade deal. It'll add fuck all to the UK economy because it's not a trade deal. The value of the CPTPP is downgraded by the OBR to 0.04% of the UK's gdp in the long term. The media spend more time praising the Florida non-trade deal, than the downgrading of an actual trade deal.

3. Rwanda scheme falls apart. Some Tory ministers want to leave the ECHR others do not. Sunak pretends it hasn't fallen apart and keeps trying to make it work.

4. Cleverly says "shithole" in the commons when a Labour MP is discussing his deprived constituency. The media just reports Cleverly calling a person a shithole, as per Cleverly's explanation, because it's totally normal to call someone rather than a place shithole. Whatever happened when Cleverly shouted shithole, it didn't say anything about a place and what the Tories really think of the UK they've created.

5. Sun/Mail/Telegraph/Times all lock step report Hunt is cutting taxes on their frontpages, when any cuts are fully engulfed by the tax rises and the general tax burden being the highest since WW2 (apparently).

6. The Tories want to force the sick, the disabled, and the elderly into work. They basically want to end retirement. It's unclear if they think this will reduce the tax burden, or if it's a method to reduce immigration, or if it'll reduce the need for care workers because crippled old people will be doing Amazon deliveries instead, or if it's all of those things. Whatever the reasoning is, it's completely crazy. It's a rerun of "make OAPs become fruit pickers".

7. On the fruit pickers, Rees-Mogg says no visas should be given to any temporary workers picking fruit, to reduce the immigration numbers. Those businesses should be allowed to die and fruit should be imported instead. This just passes by without any negative comment in the media.

8. Record immigration numbers come out, nearly all of it through completely legal migration under a Tory government. Tory ministers then start attacking the immigration record of the government they were part of. Braverman, Badenoch, Gove so far on my count.

9. Sunak himself has attacked Tory governments he was part of, saying there has been 30 years of failure. He then appoints Cameron who was part of that 30 years of failure. Much of the media just go along with it.

[tabascoboy]

Anyone else getting a growing sense this government is losing whatever control it had? There's quite a lot of loony stuff happening, a very Tory friendly media environment is a lot of the duct tape holding them together. In no particular order.
...

Yeah, but yeah but CORBYN!

[_Os_]

Anyone else getting a growing sense this government is losing whatever control it had? There's quite a lot of loony stuff happening, a very Tory friendly media environment is a lot of the duct tape holding them together. In no particular order.
...

Yeah, but yeah but CORBYN!

Tories are the party of business/the natural party of government/the law and order party/the trustworthy party on the economy, do not vote for Labour unless you want "chaos under Ed Miliband"!

[sturginho]

Rishi Rich has now picked a fight with Greece, cancelling a meeting with the Greek PM at the last minute because the mean Greek man told Kuensberg that he wants the Parthenon statues back when he had "promised" not to mention them in the meeting

[tabascoboy]

Anyone else getting a growing sense this government is losing whatever control it had? There's quite a lot of loony stuff happening, a very Tory friendly media environment is a lot of the duct tape holding them together. In no particular order.
...

Yeah, but yeah but CORBYN!

Tories are the party of business/the natural party of government/the law and order party/the trustworthy party on the economy, do not vote for Labour unless you want "chaos under Ed Miliband"!

A fair while after it was first shown, I watched 'Partygate' from Channel 4 this weekend. While caution is needed over a fictionalised dramatization of the Sue Gray report, and while this is focused on the behaviours of Cabinet Office Staff - when you add this to the revelations of the Covid Enquiry it all very clearly happened on the Tories watch. I can only think there is a complete weariness / acceptance / fear among hard core Tory voters that this hasn't caused the major scandal it should now to try and provoke a thorough reform of the party and also kick them out of power while they do this.

Increasingly less "the Law and Order" party and more the "the Law doesn't Apply to Us" party

[fishfoodie]

Anyone else getting a growing sense this government is losing whatever control it had? There's quite a lot of loony stuff happening, a very Tory friendly media environment is a lot of the duct tape holding them together. In no particular order.

1. Farage being mobbed at the Tory party conference and dancing with Patel, lots of members making no secret about wanting him as Tory leader, some MPs/ministers saying they wouldn't oppose him joining. Not much focus on this by the media, then Farage is off to do celeb reality TV where everyone is incapable of asking him about his history.

2. Badenoch praising a "memorandum of understanding" with Florida as if it's a trade deal, when it isn't a trade deal. It'll add fuck all to the UK economy because it's not a trade deal. The value of the CPTPP is downgraded by the OBR to 0.04% of the UK's gdp in the long term. The media spend more time praising the Florida non-trade deal, than the downgrading of an actual trade deal.

3. Rwanda scheme falls apart. Some Tory ministers want to leave the ECHR others do not. Sunak pretends it hasn't fallen apart and keeps trying to make it work.

4. Cleverly says "shithole" in the commons when a Labour MP is discussing his deprived constituency. The media just reports Cleverly calling a person a shithole, as per Cleverly's explanation, because it's totally normal to call someone rather than a place shithole. Whatever happened when Cleverly shouted shithole, it didn't say anything about a place and what the Tories really think of the UK they've created.

5. Sun/Mail/Telegraph/Times all lock step report Hunt is cutting taxes on their frontpages, when any cuts are fully engulfed by the tax rises and the general tax burden being the highest since WW2 (apparently).

6. The Tories want to force the sick, the disabled, and the elderly into work. They basically want to end retirement. It's unclear if they think this will reduce the tax burden, or if it's a method to reduce immigration, or if it'll reduce the need for care workers because crippled old people will be doing Amazon deliveries instead, or if it's all of those things. Whatever the reasoning is, it's completely crazy. It's a rerun of "make OAPs become fruit pickers".

7. On the fruit pickers, Rees-Mogg says no visas should be given to any temporary workers picking fruit, to reduce the immigration numbers. Those businesses should be allowed to die and fruit should be imported instead. This just passes by without any negative comment in the media.

8. Record immigration numbers come out, nearly all of it through completely legal migration under a Tory government. Tory ministers then start attacking the immigration record of the government they were part of. Braverman, Badenoch, Gove so far on my count.

9. Sunak himself has attacked Tory governments he was part of, saying there has been 30 years of failure. He then appoints Cameron who was part of that 30 years of failure. Much of the media just go along with it.

As soon as the Head boy gets his Trade Deal with India, he'll check out & go off to run his FiLs business.

Modi is well aware of this, & is playing him like a fiddle, so he'll push it till the last moment, & I doubt we'll ever see a more one-sided deal ever again, because no other PM would do, because they'd know it'd be the end of their career.

[David in Gwent]

Meanwhile seeing this shitstain being bundled away like a little dolly made my day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67545868

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

I understood that he was arrested because the rozzers told him to piss off, as is their right, & if he'd done so, he'd still be free, but instead he got lippy & refused to disperse, & so got nicked.

The copper who pepper sprayed him, whilst he was in restraints and whilst he was surrounded by 20+ other coppers may have to look for another career.

It's a good job we definitely don't have a two tier policing system is this country.

[dpedin]

Gove being interviewed at the covid Enquiry just now. What a slimy supercilious toad he is, gently dropping all his colleagues in the shit whilst damning them with faint praise. However Hugo Keith is nailing him, every time Gove tries to avoid the question or deflect Keith screws him down with the detail and corrects him at every stage. KC has to regularly remind Gove of the sequence of events as Gove tries time and again to cover himself by confusing the dates etc. Gove trying hard to throw in a few curve balls, even said at one point that some thought that the virus was man made and that created a problem for him! Keith refuses to be deflected and is slowly but surely making Gove appear exactly what he is - a lying bastard! Now Gove claiming he hadn't seen docs that were obviously copied into him and as shown on the doc trail. Politics meet informed KC and it is fascinating ... and the KC is well clear on points at the moment! Mesmerizing watch.

Gove is probably the brightest and sharpest pencil in the Head Boys Gov pencil case and he got shafted by KCs who were forensic in their questioning. He ended up making things up to cover his back and explaining previous misleading statements. Feck knows how the rest of the dimwits are going to handle this level of questioning - the Blonde bumblecunt, Hancock and the Head boy are really going to struggle with this and in particular being told to shut up politely but firmly by the KC and Enquiry Chair once they start rambling and making political points. Being held to account is not exactly something they are used to ... I have already got the popcorn out!

[David in Gwent]

I understood that he was arrested because the rozzers told him to piss off, as is their right, & if he'd done so, he'd still be free, but instead he got lippy & refused to disperse, & so got nicked.

The organisers of the protest told him to stay away. Did the police act on this request or the likelihood of him being a dick?

He was apparently issued with an exclusion order after the organisers informed police his presence was likely to cause trouble. Seemingly under the legislation all the right wingers were cheering on when it was brought in.

He didn’t obey that order, so he was arrested.

Interesting video on Robinson's release from his arrest. That jacket is beyond horrendous.

[yermum]

Tory London mayor candidate claims she was pickpocketed and goes full Shatner Kahn!

Turns out she lost the wallet which was handed in by a member of the public with all the cash still in situ

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 23168.html

[Slick]

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

I understood that he was arrested because the rozzers told him to piss off, as is their right, & if he'd done so, he'd still be free, but instead he got lippy & refused to disperse, & so got nicked.

The copper who pepper sprayed him, whilst he was in restraints and whilst he was surrounded by 20+ other coppers may have to look for another career.

It's a good job we definitely don't have a two tier policing system is this country.

To be fair, and on the face of it, it does seem ridiculously over the top.

[Raggs]

Couldn't be arsed to watch all the "freedom of speech/movement" stuff at the start. The actual clip of him getting sprayed seems to literally start with him getting sprayed, yet there's a dozen people recording. Where's the 20 seconds leading upto him getting sprayed? It does seem over the top, but let's see the previous 20 seconds.

[yermum]

FAFO

[David in Gwent]

Couldn't be arsed to watch all the "freedom of speech/movement" stuff at the start. The actual clip of him getting sprayed seems to literally start with him getting sprayed, yet there's a dozen people recording. Where's the 20 seconds leading upto him getting sprayed? It does seem over the top, but let's see the previous 20 seconds.

Seriously? There is only one person filming from an elevated position and thus able to catch the the pepper spraying. The people on the ground level would only be able to see 20-30 police in hi vis jackets arresting one man.

[David in Gwent]

FAFO

A term I used for Hamas supporting Palestinians to be fair.

[weegie01]

Gove being interviewed at the covid Enquiry just now. What a slimy supercilious toad he is, gently dropping all his colleagues in the shit whilst damning them with faint praise. However Hugo Keith is nailing him, every time Gove tries to avoid the question or deflect Keith screws him down with the detail and corrects him at every stage. KC has to regularly remind Gove of the sequence of events as Gove tries time and again to cover himself by confusing the dates etc. Gove trying hard to throw in a few curve balls, even said at one point that some thought that the virus was man made and that created a problem for him! Keith refuses to be deflected and is slowly but surely making Gove appear exactly what he is - a lying bastard! Now Gove claiming he hadn't seen docs that were obviously copied into him and as shown on the doc trail. Politics meet informed KC and it is fascinating ... and the KC is well clear on points at the moment! Mesmerizing watch.

Gove is probably the brightest and sharpest pencil in the Head Boys Gov pencil case and he got shafted by KCs who were forensic in their questioning. He ended up making things up to cover his back and explaining previous misleading statements. Feck knows how the rest of the dimwits are going to handle this level of questioning - the Blonde bumblecunt, Hancock and the Head boy are really going to struggle with this and in particular being told to shut up politely but firmly by the KC and Enquiry Chair once they start rambling and making political points. Being held to account is not exactly something they are used to ... I have already got the popcorn out!

I have just finished reading 'Politics on the Edge' by Rory Stewart. He comes across as somewhat naive, judgemental, a bit too pleased with himself and convinced of his own abilities, but even so he is scathing about the nature of politics in this country. I doubt if many people will be surprised that most politics is about the pursuit of power rather than doing good, but if it is anything like what he suggests is true then we may as well all give up now.

To be fair, a lot of what he talks about are things I have seen over and over again in large corporates. For exmaple, bright people are dropped into jobs they are not really equipped for, know they have a short time to make a reputation, do so with rampant short termism knowing someone else will inherit the mess. And then the same thing happens all over agians whrn the next person comes in.

[_Os_]

I have just finished reading 'Politics on the Edge' by Rory Stewart. He comes across as somewhat naive, judgemental, a bit too pleased with himself and convinced of his own abilities, but even so he is scathing about the nature of politics in this country. I doubt if many people will be surprised that most politics is about the pursuit of power rather than doing good, but if it is anything like what he suggests is true then we may as well all give up now.

To be fair, a lot of what he talks about are things I have seen over and over again in large corporates. For exmaple, bright people are dropped into jobs they are not really equipped for, know they have a short time to make a reputation, do so with rampant short termism knowing someone else will inherit the mess. And then the same thing happens all over agians whrn the next person comes in.

Haven't read it, but he's good on the UK's failing Victorian democratic institutions, he's experienced them so it carries more weight than when others say it. One of the odd things about UK politics is lauding the constitution for allowing flexibility and change, but anyone saying there needs to be some big changes is told nothing can change and there is no flexibility because of tradition blah blah. The institutions aren't some ancient tradition, they're failing modern institutions that are giving massive unchecked power to small numbers of people, some of which would fail as local councillors.

It's most visible in international relations when these useless politicians try to play their games on the international stage. Poor trade deals where the UK concedes ground to get them over the line. Truss vs the international markets. All the outcry over the NI protocol ended up in the UK accepting it through the Windsor framework, because the UK couldn't handle a trade war with the EU. The mess over Rwanda that if it means the UK trying to escape human rights commitments will probably end in another climb down by the UK. The nonsense disagreement with Greece (even Big Dog was more diplomatic), looks entirely about creating a culture war issue for the tabloids to make Sunak look tough. The default is becoming the UK gets handed its own arse, and if that doesn't happen it finds a way to hand itself its own arse.

The commitment to institutions which give morons huge power without much scrutiny, is doing real damage every time those morons come up against competent opponents that know what they're doing and/or when they try to do impossible things. Which Brexit has made a regular occurrence. The system has selected these morons it can't seem to hold to account (even in cases of what looks like open corruption which should mean jail), it can/will select people like that again and give them nearly unchecked power again.

[fishfoodie]

I have just finished reading 'Politics on the Edge' by Rory Stewart. He comes across as somewhat naive, judgemental, a bit too pleased with himself and convinced of his own abilities, but even so he is scathing about the nature of politics in this country. I doubt if many people will be surprised that most politics is about the pursuit of power rather than doing good, but if it is anything like what he suggests is true then we may as well all give up now.

To be fair, a lot of what he talks about are things I have seen over and over again in large corporates. For exmaple, bright people are dropped into jobs they are not really equipped for, know they have a short time to make a reputation, do so with rampant short termism knowing someone else will inherit the mess. And then the same thing happens all over agians whrn the next person comes in.

Haven't read it, but he's good on the UK's failing Victorian democratic institutions, he's experienced them so it carries more weight than when others say it. One of the odd things about UK politics is lauding the constitution for allowing flexibility and change, but anyone saying there needs to be some big changes is told nothing can change and there is no flexibility because of tradition blah blah. The institutions aren't some ancient tradition, they're failing modern institutions that are giving massive unchecked power to small numbers of people, some of which would fail as local councillors.

It's most visible in international relations when these useless politicians try to play their games on the international stage. Poor trade deals where the UK concedes ground to get them over the line. Truss vs the international markets. All the outcry over the NI protocol ended up in the UK accepting it through the Windsor framework, because the UK couldn't handle a trade war with the EU. The mess over Rwanda that if it means the UK trying to escape human rights commitments will probably end in another climb down by the UK. The nonsense disagreement with Greece (even Big Dog was more diplomatic), looks entirely about creating a culture war issue for the tabloids to make Sunak look tough. The default is becoming the UK gets handed its own arse, and if that doesn't happen it finds a way to hand itself its own arse.

The commitment to institutions which give morons huge power without much scrutiny, is doing real damage every time those morons come up against competent opponents that know what they're doing and/or when they try to do impossible things. Which Brexit has made a regular occurrence. The system has selected these morons it can't seem to hold to account (even in cases of what looks like open corruption which should mean jail), it can/will select people like that again and give them nearly unchecked power again.

I think Varadkar gets the credit for first referring to the UK looking for, "magical solutions", & "Unicorns", when it came to Brexit, but the problem extends to everything where policy & reality collide, & reality refuses to comply.

You could pick out any of a hundred incidents where a UK Minister went out are bullish, & ended up coming back with their bollocks in a bucket somewhere, & them trying desperately to sell the reality as a win back in the House.

Was it Truss who threatened to make the Ozzie trade envoy sit in a hard chair so the UK would get a great trade deal ? .... & how did that end up ?

This latest idiotic spat with the Greeks is just the latest fail that will come back to haunt the UK. What do we now think will the negotiations where say, a new Labour Government agrees to harmonizing on veterinarian checks with the EU, to reduce trade friction ?, do the UK expect the Greeks to just nod thru the new deal, or will the return of a set of looted Greek art treasures be the difference between a deal, & no deal ?

[Tichtheid]

This latest idiotic spat with the Greeks is just the latest fail that will come back to haunt the UK. What do we now think will the negotiations where say, a new Labour Government agrees to harmonizing on veterinarian checks with the EU, to reduce trade friction ?, do the UK expect the Greeks to just nod thru the new deal, or will the return of a set of looted Greek art treasures be the difference between a deal, & no deal ?

"We told you it would be worse under Labour", Mail, Telegraph, Express, etc...

[fishfoodie]

This latest idiotic spat with the Greeks is just the latest fail that will come back to haunt the UK. What do we now think will the negotiations where say, a new Labour Government agrees to harmonizing on veterinarian checks with the EU, to reduce trade friction ?, do the UK expect the Greeks to just nod thru the new deal, or will the return of a set of looted Greek art treasures be the difference between a deal, & no deal ?

"We told you it would be worse under Labour", Mail, Telegraph, Express, etc...

Best of luck pulling that off when 1,000,000 Indians rock up on UK shores & decimate the wages of University graduates across the UK.

You'll be like the US, where the Corporations hire a hundred H1B kids, & pick the best twenty & throw the other eighty back in the pond, all the while complaining about the lack of STEM candidates, when they themselves have shown all these kids why they'd be mugs to be a hundred thousand dollars plus of debt, just to get into competition with a H1B working twice as many hours, for half the wages.

[Paddington Bear]

This latest idiotic spat with the Greeks is just the latest fail that will come back to haunt the UK. What do we now think will the negotiations where say, a new Labour Government agrees to harmonizing on veterinarian checks with the EU, to reduce trade friction ?, do the UK expect the Greeks to just nod thru the new deal, or will the return of a set of looted Greek art treasures be the difference between a deal, & no deal ?

"We told you it would be worse under Labour", Mail, Telegraph, Express, etc...

Best of luck pulling that off when 1,000,000 Indians rock up on UK shores & decimate the wages of University graduates across the UK.

… who’s going to tell him?

[_Os_]

This latest idiotic spat with the Greeks is just the latest fail that will come back to haunt the UK. What do we now think will the negotiations where say, a new Labour Government agrees to harmonizing on veterinarian checks with the EU, to reduce trade friction ?, do the UK expect the Greeks to just nod thru the new deal, or will the return of a set of looted Greek art treasures be the difference between a deal, & no deal ?

Maybe, but it looks unlikely. Starmer met the Greek PM, and there's some deal to share the statues in the works. Can't see EU members being happy about a veto always coming in from Greece, when statues aren't life or death and agreeing something could benefit EU members (no idea if reducing checks on imports into the EU meets that criteria). Where I could see it maybe becoming an issue is if attempts to loan/share the statues fail because a UK government doesn't want bad headlines in the tabloids ("WEAK STARMER CAVES TO THE GREEKS ON ENGLISH STATUES BECAUSE HE'S A TRAITOR WHO HATES BRITAIN!!"), and the same UK government then tries to get better EU market access for its creative/cultural industries, the Greek position then looks a bit stronger if they want make some demands.

What it shows is that this lot cannot do diplomacy. Qatar’s PM brokered the ceasefire in the latest Israel-Palestine conflict, he met the Israel/US/Iran/Hamas. He also helped the withdrawal from Kabul go more smoothly than it could've by meeting with the Taliban, the Taliban had achieved a total military victory but didn't attack retreating Western forces. You don't need to see much of the current media climate (right wing billionaire owned, Murdoch, etc) in the UK to know that a UK PM meeting with the likes of Hamas/Iran/Taliban in a venture which could fail, is going to take an absolute beating from that same media after which their political opponents will wade in, even if they succeed in their diplomatic venture. It's in the criticism of Sunak too, quite often the criticism goes "this is no way to treat an ally" as if this is WW2 or something and it's okay to not meet non-allies (and who is deciding who is an ally and who isn't?).

Aussies get the hard chairs + refuse to meet Greek PM = media love it.
Meet with bad actors + diplomacy which could fail but worth it if it succeeds = end of political career.

Not sure how the UK plays any meaningful role in real world conflicts (not culture wars stupidity) with this outlook, outside of something the tabloids love like providing troops/weapons for US foreign policy.

[dpedin]

"We told you it would be worse under Labour", Mail, Telegraph, Express, etc...

Best of luck pulling that off when 1,000,000 Indians rock up on UK shores & decimate the wages of University graduates across the UK.

… who’s going to tell him?

I'm sure he knows that currently in post Brexit the UK immigration rules allow employers to pay many of those coming across on a work visa between 70-80% less than the going rate for the job? This includes many who are newly graduated, studying towards a higher degree or hold a PhD.

[Paddington Bear]

This latest idiotic spat with the Greeks is just the latest fail that will come back to haunt the UK. What do we now think will the negotiations where say, a new Labour Government agrees to harmonizing on veterinarian checks with the EU, to reduce trade friction ?, do the UK expect the Greeks to just nod thru the new deal, or will the return of a set of looted Greek art treasures be the difference between a deal, & no deal ?

Maybe, but it looks unlikely. Starmer met the Greek PM, and there's some deal to share the statues in the works. Can't see EU members being happy about a veto always coming in from Greece, when statues aren't life or death and agreeing something could benefit EU members (no idea if reducing checks on imports into the EU meets that criteria). Where I could see it maybe becoming an issue is if attempts to loan/share the statues fail because a UK government doesn't want bad headlines in the tabloids ("WEAK STARMER CAVES TO THE GREEKS ON ENGLISH STATUES BECAUSE HE'S A TRAITOR WHO HATES BRITAIN!!"), and the same UK government then tries to get better EU market access for its creative/cultural industries, the Greek position then looks a bit stronger if they want make some demands.

What it shows is that this lot cannot do diplomacy. Qatar’s PM brokered the ceasefire in the latest Israel-Palestine conflict, he met the Israel/US/Iran/Hamas. He also helped the withdrawal from Kabul go more smoothly than it could've by meeting with the Taliban, the Taliban had achieved a total military victory but didn't attack retreating Western forces. You don't need to see much of the current media climate (right wing billionaire owned, Murdoch, etc) in the UK to know that a UK PM meeting with the likes of Hamas/Iran/Taliban in a venture which could fail, is going to take an absolutely beating from that same media after which their political opponents will wade in too, even if they succeed in their diplomatic venture. It's in the criticism of Sunak too, quite often the criticism goes "this is no way to treat an ally" as if this is WW2 or something and it's okay to not meet non-allies (and who is deciding who is an ally and who isn't?).

Aussies get the hard chairs + refuse to meet Greek PM = media love it.
Meet with bad actors + diplomacy which could fail but worth it if it succeeds = end of political career.

Not sure how the UK plays any meaningful role in real world conflicts (not culture wars stupidity) with this outlook, outside of something the tabloids love like providing troops/weapons for US foreign policy.

I suppose our role in real world conflict has been providing the Ukrainian armed forces with masses of materiel, up to and including tanks, vast training and a major diplomatic effort to maintain support for them and pressure on Russia. Seems meaningful enough

[Insane_Homer]

[SaintK]

What a weapons grade cretin she is.

[Raggs]

That is just fantastic. I did notice that she at least managed to not say it was stolen when the presenter led her down that route.

[_Os_]

I suppose our role in real world conflict has been providing the Ukrainian armed forces with masses of materiel, up to and including tanks, vast training and a major diplomatic effort to maintain support for them and pressure on Russia. Seems meaningful enough

That goes into the backing the US foreign policy with troops/weapons pile. Thing with backing the US, is they can always just do it alone but the reverse isn't always true. It was there in the UK's reaction to the US leaving Afghanistan, the mission was mostly a failure by the end (by which time the mission seemed to have become to build a functioning democratic state over multiple generations of occupation), the speed of the Taliban advance showed how likely success was. The UK's role was to provide troops/weapons for US foreign policy but in the Commons debate there was talk of basically being betrayed by the US and needing to continue the mission somehow, and even that the Taliban were being defeated.

There's a bit of an inflated view of what the UK is doing when it sends troops/weapons. Campbell probably has it about right when people bring up Iraq, his standard reply is the UK provided 5% of troops and it would've happened anyway without the UK. He's trying to downplay Labour's role in a failure, but no one before that war (or now after it has ended) was saying France was showing at least as much clout by not providing troops/weapons. The UK not being involved in Vietnam looks like an aberration now.

A media/political environment which makes it impossible to meet bad actors (and is okay with treating friends badly over minor disagreements as in this case), limits the UK. Sticking with your example of Ukraine, it's obvious Ukraine needs more of everything to get the best outcome, but the UK has done all it can as you say, so that's not something the UK controls. If Trump is elected and cuts Ukraine off (which would be shameful Ukraine isn't anything like Afghanistan), does the UK sit at the table in the Trump arranged talks? Does Trump allow the UK to do so? How is a UK PM treated in the UK if the deal isn't great (which it wouldn't be)? Cameron ducked out last time, because he knew it would be reported in the UK as him being weak (rather than the UK's strength or lack of being shown), it was Obama and Merkel that talked with Putin. The safe option for any UK PM is provide troops/weapons for US foreign policy (the stage Ukraine is at), avoid talking to non-allies thereby avoiding the risk of being seen as weak etc, then somewhat complain about/regret the final outcome the UK had not much input into.

UK diplomacy is obviously going to be limited if the PM can only meet with people he's in total agreement with.

[Biffer]

Meanwhile seeing this shitstain being bundled away like a little dolly made my day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67545868

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

To be clear, I'm not directly addressing this at you or saying this is what you did, I've just quoted you as an example of the question.

The key thing about Yaxley Lennon's arrest for me is, if you're asking questions about it, were you asking the same questions when the legislation was brought in? Or given the way it was brought forward as a response to things like the BLM protests, were you OK with it as you thought it would just be used on those guys?

More than anything else this highlights how bad the legislation is and how it removes our freedoms as a society. We seem to have forgotten that we protect all of us by protecting the least of us. We're all a minority in some way or another, so we can all be targeted by bigots of some description.

[yermum]

I suppose our role in real world conflict has been providing the Ukrainian armed forces with masses of materiel, up to and including tanks, vast training and a major diplomatic effort to maintain support for them and pressure on Russia. Seems meaningful enough

That goes into the backing the US foreign policy with troops/weapons pile. Thing with backing the US, is they can always just do it alone but the reverse isn't always true. It was there in the UK's reaction to the US leaving Afghanistan, the mission was mostly a failure by the end (by which time the mission seemed to have become to build a functioning democratic state over multiple generations of occupation), the speed of the Taliban advance showed how likely success was. The UK's role was to provide troops/weapons for US foreign policy but in the Commons debate there was talk of basically being betrayed by the US and needing to continue the mission somehow, and even that the Taliban were being defeated.

There's a bit of an inflated view of what the UK is doing when it sends troops/weapons. Campbell probably has it about right when people bring up Iraq, his standard reply is the UK provided 5% of troops and it would've happened anyway without the UK. He's trying to downplay Labour's role in a failure, but no one before that war (or now after it has ended) was saying France was showing at least as much clout by not providing troops/weapons. The UK not being involved in Vietnam looks like an aberration now.

A media/political environment which makes it impossible to meet bad actors (and is okay with treating friends badly over minor disagreements as in this case), limits the UK. Sticking with your example of Ukraine, it's obvious Ukraine needs more of everything to get the best outcome, but the UK has done all it can as you say, so that's not something the UK controls. If Trump is elected and cuts Ukraine off (which would be shameful Ukraine isn't anything like Afghanistan), does the UK sit at the table in the Trump arranged talks? Does Trump allow the UK to do so? How is a UK PM treated in the UK if the deal isn't great (which it wouldn't be)? Cameron ducked out last time, because he knew it would be reported in the UK as him being weak (rather than the UK's strength or lack of being shown), it was Obama and Merkel that talked with Putin. The safe option for any UK PM is provide troops/weapons for US foreign policy (the stage Ukraine is at), avoid talking to non-allies thereby avoiding the risk of being seen as weak etc, then somewhat complain about/regret the final outcome the UK had not much input into.

UK diplomacy is obviously going to be limited if the PM can only meet with people he's in total agreement with.

The amount of political capital that the uk has expended on Ukraine will make it very uncomfortable for the government if the US drops support.

But given the meek tail tucking that went on after Afghanistan where British soldiers died I can’t imagine a robust response from our government

[Hal Jordan]

The microphone summed up Sunak's abilities at PMQs today when, just after he said "Britain's not listening", it turned off.

Starmer absolutely put.the boot in and gave him the line "He's the man with the reverse Midas touch, everything he touches turns to...maybe the Home Secretary could help me out?"

[shaggy]

Meanwhile seeing this shitstain being bundled away like a little dolly made my day

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67545868

I am sure there are very good reasons why this happened (the arrest) but it does seem somewhat worrying that individuals can now get detained based on request?

To be clear, I'm not directly addressing this at you or saying this is what you did, I've just quoted you as an example of the question.

The key thing about Yaxley Lennon's arrest for me is, if you're asking questions about it, were you asking the same questions when the legislation was brought in? Or given the way it was brought forward as a response to things like the BLM protests, were you OK with it as you thought it would just be used on those guys?

More than anything else this highlights how bad the legislation is and how it removes our freedoms as a society. We seem to have forgotten that we protect all of us by protecting the least of us. We're all a minority in some way or another, so we can all be targeted by bigots of some description.

Are you really expecting me to respond to that with the veiled ‘racist’ accusation in there?