NPR

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:17 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:01 pm I've got news for you, no billionaires give a toss especially ones from ruling families of middle-east oil states guilty of appalling human rights atrocities. But hey, they have far more billions than a Brit who makes cheap tat to flog in warehouse stores so we don't really care as long as the money comes in.

Where did I say the Saudis care? If Newcastle fans started singing about Yemen or Khasoggi they'd be far more upset than Ashley ever was. Because they're buying Newcastle for reputation, not to squeeze every merch and TV deal penny from the club.

• Saudi money ok because they only want soft power and international prestige to mask their appalling human rights violations in exchange for their money.

• Ashley money bad because he wanted a return on his investment.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:36 am
Kitchener is signing a short term injury cover contract as Swinson did and perhaps he could turn it into a longer term contract as Swinson did.

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:36 am

Tichtheid wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:03 am

SaintK wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:16 am
Perhaps this could be a "Swinson" moment for Kitchener, he has never fully realised the full potential he showed as an U20?

Swinson did okay before he went to Saracens, in 137 appearances he helped Glasgow become champions and twice runner-up, plus he won 38 caps for Scotland.

He was good at Sarries, no doubt, but it wasn't like he was under-achieving beforehand.

Poorly worded from me.
Kitchener is signing a short term injury cover contract as Swinson did and perhaps he could turn it into a longer term contract as Swinson did. Though as you rightly say, Swinson already had a pretty strong CV before he signed for Sarries

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:03 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:17 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 8:01 pm I've got news for you, no billionaires give a toss especially ones from ruling families of middle-east oil states guilty of appalling human rights atrocities. But hey, they have far more billions than a Brit who makes cheap tat to flog in warehouse stores so we don't really care as long as the money comes in.

Where did I say the Saudis care? If Newcastle fans started singing about Yemen or Khasoggi they'd be far more upset than Ashley ever was. Because they're buying Newcastle for reputation, not to squeeze every merch and TV deal penny from the club.

So to summarise;

• Saudi money ok because they only want soft power and international prestige to mask their appalling human rights violations in exchange for their money.

• Ashley money bad because he wanted a return on his investment.

We are down the rabbit hole here.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:10 pm

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:24 pm



He paid off the £100m debt. Fans don't see that of course but he cleared it. I think once the abuse started, he had the same kind of reaction to them as you and I would have, he likely thought, 'fuck you'. He was wealthy enough to keep it ticking over with the minimum investment waiting until somebody was willing to cover his total losses. And even at £300m, I think that only just about washed his face after 14 years.

Mike Ashley didn't become a billionaire whose entire modus operandi is squeezing every single penny out of low cost clothing and taking over distressed assets by being someone who cared at all what people think. The Newcastle fans hating him is irrelevant. He had no interest in the club as another other than a vehicle for money making.

And he will have made money, a 100m loan of which 30m he'd already paid back to himself from running Newcastle as profitable for most of his time there. And there's the unknowable amount he made on turning the club into a vassal for Sports Direct advertising.

His success at Newcastle was mainly the top6 lifting all boats in England. Someone like him will bankrupt a rugby club in no time at all because you can't rely on a huge fanbase and other clubs generating TV revenue.

If you've got a better alternative I'm all ears, but looks like he's the only thing standing between Wasps and going under

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:36 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:10 pm

Mike Ashley didn't become a billionaire whose entire modus operandi is squeezing every single penny out of low cost clothing and taking over distressed assets by being someone who cared at all what people think. The Newcastle fans hating him is irrelevant. He had no interest in the club as another other than a vehicle for money making.

And he will have made money, a 100m loan of which 30m he'd already paid back to himself from running Newcastle as profitable for most of his time there. And there's the unknowable amount he made on turning the club into a vassal for Sports Direct advertising.

His success at Newcastle was mainly the top6 lifting all boats in England. Someone like him will bankrupt a rugby club in no time at all because you can't rely on a huge fanbase and other clubs generating TV revenue.

If you've got a better alternative I'm all ears, but looks like he's the only thing standing between Wasps and going under

He'll be the end of wasps, it'll just take longer to kill them off. His interest is the infrastructure surrounding Wasps - welcome to no investment and the bare minimum. There's no profit to be got from rugby TV deals, not much merch to sell. He'll pay them no attention and cut everything to an absolute bare minimum. Will be like Newcastle Falcons without the community buy-in.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:36 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:38 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Tue Oct 11, 2022 7:10 pm

Mike Ashley didn't become a billionaire whose entire modus operandi is squeezing every single penny out of low cost clothing and taking over distressed assets by being someone who cared at all what people think. The Newcastle fans hating him is irrelevant. He had no interest in the club as another other than a vehicle for money making.

And he will have made money, a 100m loan of which 30m he'd already paid back to himself from running Newcastle as profitable for most of his time there. And there's the unknowable amount he made on turning the club into a vassal for Sports Direct advertising.

His success at Newcastle was mainly the top6 lifting all boats in England. Someone like him will bankrupt a rugby club in no time at all because you can't rely on a huge fanbase and other clubs generating TV revenue.

If you've got a better alternative I'm all ears, but looks like he's the only thing standing between Wasps and going under

He'll be the end of wasps, it'll just take longer to kill them off. His interest is the infrastructure surrounding Wasps - welcome to no investment and the bare minimum. There's no profit to be got from rugby TV deals, not much merch to sell. He'll pay them no attention and cut everything to an absolute bare minimum. Will be like Newcastle Falcons without the community buy-in.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:32 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:36 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:38 am

If you've got a better alternative I'm all ears, but looks like he's the only thing standing between Wasps and going under

He'll be the end of wasps, it'll just take longer to kill them off. His interest is the infrastructure surrounding Wasps - welcome to no investment and the bare minimum. There's no profit to be got from rugby TV deals, not much merch to sell. He'll pay them no attention and cut everything to an absolute bare minimum. Will be like Newcastle Falcons without the community buy-in.

And Wasps survive. The options are zero sum at this stage, there's no top bloke millionaire rugby lover business guru riding in on a white horse. It's Ashley, someone of his ilk, or goodbye Wasps.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:07 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:32 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:36 am

He'll be the end of wasps, it'll just take longer to kill them off. His interest is the infrastructure surrounding Wasps - welcome to no investment and the bare minimum. There's no profit to be got from rugby TV deals, not much merch to sell. He'll pay them no attention and cut everything to an absolute bare minimum. Will be like Newcastle Falcons without the community buy-in.

And Wasps survive. The options are zero sum at this stage, there's no top bloke millionaire rugby lover business guru riding in on a white horse. It's Ashley, someone of his ilk, or goodbye Wasps.

I think it's goodbye Wasps anyway if Ashley gets them as part of the Coventry City/Casino/Stadium deal. No chance he'll even try to make them half decent and no chance fans will turn up to watch a transplanted club achieve nothing in an empty stadium.

We're all pretending for some reason Ashley did anything to earn his profit at Newcastle when he didn't. Tottenham Hotspur have shown even a shrewd owner who only wants to sell the club can create a formidable commercial proposition. Ashley did the bare minimum, didn't innovate past using NUFC as a merchandise vassal for Sports Direct, didn't try anything. Just sat there as the oligarchs and the Americans invested countless money which generated vast TV deals from international viewers who want to watch Chelsea and didn't care one jot about Newcastle. He won't do anything to turn Wasps into a profitable entity. He'll cut costs to the bone and do things with the casino etc. English rugby doesn't have the popularity of the premier league and wasps don't have the fanbase of Newcastle so drop by drop the club will die before he liquidates them as a strain on his investment.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:10 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 11:07 am

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:32 am

And Wasps survive. The options are zero sum at this stage, there's no top bloke millionaire rugby lover business guru riding in on a white horse. It's Ashley, someone of his ilk, or goodbye Wasps.

I think it's goodbye Wasps anyway if Ashley gets them as part of the Coventry City/Casino/Stadium deal. No chance he'll even try to make them half decent and no chance fans will turn up to watch a transplanted club achieve nothing in an empty stadium.

We're all pretending for some reason Ashley did anything to earn his profit at Newcastle when he didn't. Tottenham Hotspur have shown even a shrewd owner who only wants to sell the club can create a formidable commercial proposition. Ashley did the bare minimum, didn't innovate past using NUFC as a merchandise vassal for Sports Direct, didn't try anything. Just sat there as the oligarchs and the Americans invested countless money which generated vast TV deals from international viewers who want to watch Chelsea and didn't care one jot about Newcastle. He won't do anything to turn Wasps into a profitable entity. He'll cut costs to the bone and do things with the casino etc. English rugby doesn't have the popularity of the premier league and wasps don't have the fanbase of Newcastle so drop by drop the club will die before he liquidates them as a strain on his investment.

The Ashley option, even if I accept your reading of his motives (I don't totally) allows something to turn up for Wasps. It's that or goodbye now, I'd bite his hand off if I were them.

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:30 am

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 9:03 am

I like neeps wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:17 am

Where did I say the Saudis care? If Newcastle fans started singing about Yemen or Khasoggi they'd be far more upset than Ashley ever was. Because they're buying Newcastle for reputation, not to squeeze every merch and TV deal penny from the club.

So to summarise;

• Saudi money ok because they only want soft power and international prestige to mask their appalling human rights violations in exchange for their money.

• Ashley money bad because he wanted a return on his investment.

We are down the rabbit hole here.

To summarise:

The Saudis are bad club owners because all pstrostate oligarchs are bad club owners.

Ashley is a bad club owner because his plan was never to make a profit by improving club performance but leech off external factors he had nothing to do with.

Paddington Bear wrote: ↑Wed Oct 12, 2022 10:32 am
And Wasps survive. The options are zero sum at this stage, there's no top bloke millionaire rugby lover business guru riding in on a white horse. It's Ashley, someone of his ilk, or goodbye Wasps.

PornDog wrote: ↑Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:02 am Has there been any statement or action from CVC at all during this whole episode?

Wasps previous debt has also been described to Telegraph Sport as unbelievable and horribly managed, regardless of selling stadium naming rights and return of Coventry City FC,

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:25 am As well as Europe, what the hell happens to season ticket holders?

What does the administration mean for Wasps season ticket and match ticket holders?

Unfortunately all future Wasps matches are currently cancelled and therefore match tickets, season tickets and hospitality packages cannot be honoured. Wasps is unable to provide any refunds.

If you paid by credit or debit card, you may be able to get your money back by claiming a refund from your card issuer. Please contact your card issuer as soon as you can if this may apply to you. Further information including on time limits that apply is available from UK Finance.

If you are unable to claim a refund from a card provider you can register a claim against Wasps. Details of how to register a claim will be provided to ticket holders. Registering a claim in this way does not necessarily mean that you will receive any payment. That will be determined at a later date and you will be contacted again if there is any prospect of a payment.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:29 pm Administration confirmed for Wasps.

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:28 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:25 am As well as Europe, what the hell happens to season ticket holders?

What does the administration mean for Wasps season ticket and match ticket holders?

Unfortunately all future Wasps matches are currently cancelled and therefore match tickets, season tickets and hospitality packages cannot be honoured. Wasps is unable to provide any refunds.

If you paid by credit or debit card, you may be able to get your money back by claiming a refund from your card issuer. Please contact your card issuer as soon as you can if this may apply to you. Further information including on time limits that apply is available from UK Finance.

If you are unable to claim a refund from a card provider you can register a claim against Wasps. Details of how to register a claim will be provided to ticket holders. Registering a claim in this way does not necessarily mean that you will receive any payment. That will be determined at a later date and you will be contacted again if there is any prospect of a payment.

Biffer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:06 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:28 pm

Torquemada 1420 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:25 am As well as Europe, what the hell happens to season ticket holders?

What does the administration mean for Wasps season ticket and match ticket holders?

Unfortunately all future Wasps matches are currently cancelled and therefore match tickets, season tickets and hospitality packages cannot be honoured. Wasps is unable to provide any refunds.

If you paid by credit or debit card, you may be able to get your money back by claiming a refund from your card issuer. Please contact your card issuer as soon as you can if this may apply to you. Further information including on time limits that apply is available from UK Finance.

If you are unable to claim a refund from a card provider you can register a claim against Wasps. Details of how to register a claim will be provided to ticket holders. Registering a claim in this way does not necessarily mean that you will receive any payment. That will be determined at a later date and you will be contacted again if there is any prospect of a payment.

Yeah, they’re creditors, and treated the same way as anyone else who’s owed money or services.

Margin__Walker wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 1:29 pm Administration confirmed for Wasps.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:32 pm It was obviously coming, but even confirmation of the expected is a bit of a gut punch. I've been supporting the club for half my life and feel pretty bereft at the prospect of us folding. Can only imagine what a sickener it is for all the staff to suddenly be out of work like that, presumably having begun the season not expecting it to go differently to any other.

Kawazaki wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:49 pm

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:32 pm It was obviously coming, but even confirmation of the expected is a bit of a gut punch. I've been supporting the club for half my life and feel pretty bereft at the prospect of us folding. Can only imagine what a sickener it is for all the staff to suddenly be out of work like that, presumably having begun the season not expecting it to go differently to any other.

Ah nuts, sorry mate. I've got a soft spot for Wasps, it's always the next result I look for.

What's shocked me is the speed it escalated. It actually feels more sudden than Worcester - into administration and immediately everyone is sacked off.

I think Derek Richardson has let you down if I'm honest. The opportunity in Coventry was a good one but the execution has been terrible, particularly in the way that the chance to reach out to the football club was handled. I'm sure more detail who come out but initial reports are that the debt was very badly managed, finances just a mess. This can't have been unknown either when they were offering players like Vincent Koch £100k more to join them. That's really not good.

sockwithaticket wrote: ↑Mon Oct 17, 2022 5:32 pm It was obviously coming, but even confirmation of the expected is a bit of a gut punch. I've been supporting the club for half my life and feel pretty bereft at the prospect of us folding. Can only imagine what a sickener it is for all the staff to suddenly be out of work like that, presumably having begun the season not expecting it to go differently to any other.