The Official English Rugby Thread

[ASMO]

Bristol eventually handy winners against 14 man Gloucester. So many tries left out there, though. Their accuracy needs to pick up.

8 disallowed tries, you cannot be that wasteful against a top side like Exeter who wont give many opportunities.

[Niegs]

Kyle Eastmond retires from professional rugby.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/57143061

Seemed to be a bit of an injury magnet for Wasps and Leicester, but for a season or so he was part of a hugely exciting backline at Bath that looked like it would be challenging for a few honours - Eastmond outside Ford and inside JJ, but able to interchange. All went wrong when (1) Mike Ford promised the earth contract-wise which he couldn't make good on, which also contributed to Ollie Devoto leaving and (ii) the Burgess ructions, in some part with Eastmond missing out on an England WC spot to his out-of-position clubmate. And, of course, (iii) when his chief sponsor Mike Ford was the shown the door.

Bans as well as injuries. Missed more weeks than many do across their career for some bad high tackles.

Eastmond had high tackle bans? Isn’t he actually about 5’7”?

[ASMO]

Eastmond was one of those players that never realised his potential in Union, he was a Jason Robinson lite, probably not even a lite, more of a bad impersonator, shame as i think given the right team and coaching he could have been really really good.

[JM2K6]

Kyle Eastmond retires from professional rugby.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/57143061

Seemed to be a bit of an injury magnet for Wasps and Leicester, but for a season or so he was part of a hugely exciting backline at Bath that looked like it would be challenging for a few honours - Eastmond outside Ford and inside JJ, but able to interchange. All went wrong when (1) Mike Ford promised the earth contract-wise which he couldn't make good on, which also contributed to Ollie Devoto leaving and (ii) the Burgess ructions, in some part with Eastmond missing out on an England WC spot to his out-of-position clubmate. And, of course, (iii) when his chief sponsor Mike Ford was the shown the door.

Bans as well as injuries. Missed more weeks than many do across their career for some bad high tackles.

Eastmond had high tackle bans? Isn’t he actually about 5’7”?

He used to launch himself into headshots. Could be a really dirty player when he felt like it, lost control a few times.

[sockwithaticket]

Kyle Eastmond retires from professional rugby.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/57143061

Seemed to be a bit of an injury magnet for Wasps and Leicester, but for a season or so he was part of a hugely exciting backline at Bath that looked like it would be challenging for a few honours - Eastmond outside Ford and inside JJ, but able to interchange. All went wrong when (1) Mike Ford promised the earth contract-wise which he couldn't make good on, which also contributed to Ollie Devoto leaving and (ii) the Burgess ructions, in some part with Eastmond missing out on an England WC spot to his out-of-position clubmate. And, of course, (iii) when his chief sponsor Mike Ford was the shown the door.

Bans as well as injuries. Missed more weeks than many do across their career for some bad high tackles.

Eastmond had high tackle bans? Isn’t he actually about 5’7”?

The ones I remember he got banned for were on players of roughly his height.

He managed two red card offences in quick succession against Quins a few seasons ago



Later that same year (next season and having moved to Tigers) he did basically the same thing again.

I didn't remember before looking this up that it was Barnes who carded him both times.

[inactionman]

You can take the boy out of league etc etc

All of those high shots are essentially the same bad tackle repeated. Slow learner.

Shame as he had the attacking skills to be a perfect inside centre - nimble, could pick a line, acceleration and could pass and kick.

[Niegs]

Eastmond was one of those players that never realised his potential in Union, he was a Jason Robinson lite, probably not even a lite, more of a bad impersonator, shame as i think given the right team and coaching he could have been really really good.

Agreed! I've been a fan of his nimble running abilities and his passing. Someone who played well in space, but maybe the way centres are positioned/used these days worked against him?

[Raggs]

Eastmond was one of those players that never realised his potential in Union, he was a Jason Robinson lite, probably not even a lite, more of a bad impersonator, shame as i think given the right team and coaching he could have been really really good.

Agreed! I've been a fan of his nimble running abilities and his passing. Someone who played well in space, but maybe the way centres are positioned/used these days worked against him?

I loved how he played for England, did well against NZ two or three times, only to be dropped after each one.

[sockwithaticket]

Yeah, I remember wondering each time he'd get a shot in the white (or purple) shirt what he'd done to warrant being dropped. I can't even remember who he was being dropped for, was it Burrell and/or Twelvetrees?

It's like when Freddie Burns steered what was basically a Saxons team to a very close loss against NZ in their own back yard only to be dropped for the next week's fixture. What exactly did he do other than not be someone else the coaches like more?

I'm quite the Lancaster defender, but there were definitely some near indefensible selectorial decisions at times.

[Raggs]

Yeah, I remember wondering each time he'd get a shot in the white (or purple) shirt what he'd done to warrant being dropped. I can't even remember who he was being dropped for, was it Burrell and/or Twelvetrees?

It's like when Freddie Burns steered what was basically a Saxons team to a very close loss against NZ in their own back yard only to be dropped for the next week's fixture. What exactly did he do other than not be someone else the coaches like more?

I'm quite the Lancaster defender, but there were definitely some near indefensible selectorial decisions at times.

Same. Eastmond would pick holes in the defence, with footwork or passing, and get dropped. He got dropped for a systemic error in one of the AB games, where they opened up our defence 3 times with the exact same move, think he was dropped after the second one (end of first half), and the replacements let the same move happen again anyway. It was the first NZ test in the series that Burns had a great game, and if Nigel hadn't started making up laws (it went backwards off the hands, but it's stilla knock on, and if the player hadn't just come on the pitch, he'd have got a yellow...). we may well have taken it.

[JM2K6]

Yeah, I remember wondering each time he'd get a shot in the white (or purple) shirt what he'd done to warrant being dropped. I can't even remember who he was being dropped for, was it Burrell and/or Twelvetrees?

It's like when Freddie Burns steered what was basically a Saxons team to a very close loss against NZ in their own back yard only to be dropped for the next week's fixture. What exactly did he do other than not be someone else the coaches like more?

I'm quite the Lancaster defender, but there were definitely some near indefensible selectorial decisions at times.

Same. Eastmond would pick holes in the defence, with footwork or passing, and get dropped. He got dropped for a systemic error in one of the AB games, where they opened up our defence 3 times with the exact same move, think he was dropped after the second one (end of first half), and the replacements let the same move happen again anyway. It was the first NZ test in the series that Burns had a great game, and if Nigel hadn't started making up laws (it went backwards off the hands, but it's stilla knock on, and if the player hadn't just come on the pitch, he'd have got a yellow...). we may well have taken it.

Ah, the famous invented knock-ons game.

Eastmond had some issues, though. Some of his high tackles definitely felt like the work of an angry man, and his clash at Bath suggested he wasn't quite at ease with himself. Definitely a wasted talent.

[Margin__Walker]

Teams for LI v Exeter kicking off soon (BT Sport 2). S Simmonds needs two tries to beat Dominic Chapman's 23 year old premiership try scoring record. Wouldn't bet against him getting there tonight against a team that struggles against teams going route one.

[Raggs]

There's one.

[Margin__Walker]

Well that's an odd try

[Raggs]

There seemed to be no inside defenders on the Joe Simmonds score, were they blocked? Or just lazy/fatties?

[sockwithaticket]

And we have a new record. Congrats to Sam Simmonds.

[Raggs]

All the forwards sucked in by LCD, leaving Loader and Phipps trying to stop Sam from crossing at short range.

[Raggs]

That's some serious red hair from the Irish waterboy.

[Paddington Bear]

Excellent try and lovely to hear a crowd roar again

[sockwithaticket]

That's a cracker of an offload from OHC.

[Raggs]

Need to check the offside and the neck roll?

[Margin__Walker]

Nice try that. If only we had a pack

[sockwithaticket]

Pretty good game so far, honestly thought Irish would be faring worse.

[Paddington Bear]

Poitrenaud!

[notfatcat]

Gonna take a long time for Loader to live than one down.

[Raggs]

Squeaky getting told off :D.

[ASMO]

How slow is Cuthbert?

[Raggs]

Irish have given up. 2/3rds of the Irish side was on the other side of the pitch for that one, despite most the Exeter team being on the other. No one was working to get across.

[ASMO]

How was that not a red card for O'Flatulance? Parton landed on his face

[Ali Cadoo]

That just about sums Sam Simmonds up - top tackler AND top scorer in the game. Great interview, too.

[assfly]

I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan

[shaggy]

I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan

Nah, there is an article (Guardian?) where he himself says it is partly the structure they play that allows him to score so many. Ashton is sound here

[Paddington Bear]

Yeah that's clearly correct - in teams with a different structure he'd have scored half the tries.

[SaintK]

Yeah that's clearly correct - in teams with a different structure he'd have scored half the tries.

Or maybe half as many again

[Margin__Walker]

I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan

Nah, there is an article (Guardian?) where he himself says it is partly the structure they play that allows him to score so many. Ashton is sound here

Sort of.

You don't get carried to that many tries though. The only two comparable forwards in the Premiership era are Back and Waldrom with 16. Simmonds has 19 with 3 games to play.

The top 12 all time prem try scorers are backs (and only Care on that list isn't an outside back)

[Raggs]

Waldrom is a perfect example. As he got his top scoring season with Exeter as well if I recall correctly, were there mass cries for his recall to the England team?

[ASMO]

Waldron would never have scored a 60m try like Simmons did against Quins

[Raggs]

Waldron would never have scored a 60m try like Simmons did against Quins

So we take Waldroms 16, and add the extras that Simmonds breaks the record with.

[Lobby]

I'm sure it's been discussed before on here, but Chris Ashton was saying that the praise for Simmonds' try scoring record should also consider that most of his tries come from 5m or less of the tryline, and from a lot of work by his forward pack that is part of a concerted game plan that will always lead to the 8 scoring a lot.

But also sounds like a slightly jealous winger having a moan

Nah, there is an article (Guardian?) where he himself says it is partly the structure they play that allows him to score so many. Ashton is sound here

Sort of.

You don't get carried to that many tries though. The only two comparable forwards in the Premiership era are Back and Waldrom with 16. Simmonds has 19 with 3 games to play.

The top 12 all time prem try scorers are backs (and only Care on that list isn't an outside back)

In the same Guardian article one of the other Exeter players is quoted as saying that Waldrom was greedier than Simmonds, and would bulldoze people out of the way to score a try himself.

While Exeter's structure is clearly aimed to engineer close range try scoring opportunities for the 8, Simmonds is not a carbon copy of Waldrom, and brings much more than just bulldozing over the line from 2m.

[Hells Bells]

Has Simmonds become a radically better player than he was in 2018?

He has 7 England caps, one good performance against Italy and I can’t remember much else apart from being outmuscled against France and Ireland in the 6 Nations. He’s a great player for the Exeter system but what is his role in the current England team when Eddie doesn’t use his 8 to hang about in the wide channels and is he a dominant enough tackler for Mitchell’s system?