The Official English Rugby Thread

[Kawazaki]

Nick Auterac was named in the Scotland squad. I presume he's not very good as a 28 year old journeyman loosehead?

What could he of interest to you guys is Ashman is in the Scotland squad but Bevan Rodd and Charlie Chapman are not.

Auterac looked amazing for a short spell but he's never been at quite that level again and has suffered a fair number of injuries over the intervening years. Very few appearances in recent times, seems to very much be a squad depth player now.

Good to know about Rodd, although I'm not surprised. I've had the feeling he identifies more with England than Ashman does. Interesting that Ashman's been called up by anyone at all, though, he seems to be 3rd choice at Sale.

Chapman probably doesn't have an international future with England. From what I've seen of him with Glaws he's not at the same level as his equivalent aged peers like Randall or Mitchell, while there are young guys coming up behind like van Poortvliet and Quirke who look stand out already. I'd be incredibly surprised if Chapman were even in the England A squad.

As you've mentioned him, was there an expectation he might be called up for the senior Scotland team?

Agreed when he burst on the scene he was a total wrecking ball (for Bath iirc)

Random/WTF/eh? post of the day winner.

[Tichtheid]

I’m delighted that Quins won that, I appreciate good, pragmatic sides, but I love rugby played like Quins play it

[Openside]

Auterac looked amazing for a short spell but he's never been at quite that level again and has suffered a fair number of injuries over the intervening years. Very few appearances in recent times, seems to very much be a squad depth player now.

Good to know about Rodd, although I'm not surprised. I've had the feeling he identifies more with England than Ashman does. Interesting that Ashman's been called up by anyone at all, though, he seems to be 3rd choice at Sale.

Chapman probably doesn't have an international future with England. From what I've seen of him with Glaws he's not at the same level as his equivalent aged peers like Randall or Mitchell, while there are young guys coming up behind like van Poortvliet and Quirke who look stand out already. I'd be incredibly surprised if Chapman were even in the England A squad.

As you've mentioned him, was there an expectation he might be called up for the senior Scotland team?

Agreed when he burst on the scene he was a total wrecking ball (for Bath iirc)

Random/WTF/eh? post of the day winner.

Why?? I was agreeing that Auterac looked really good for a spell ??

[Brazil]

I'm absolutely made up that quins won that.definitely one for the good guys.

[assfly]

Outstanding game, one of the best finals I've ever watched. Which is ridiculous consider the semifinal the week before was also one of the best games I've seen.

When Quins went 5 points behind and Exeter were going through the motions, I thought we were cooked. Especially when the Exeter squad were in full song. Was wonderful to see them shut up in the final 5.

I would love to hear more about the leadership dynamics in that team, to rally them in a final the way they did. Joe Marler was constantly talking from the first minute, would love to hear what he was saying.

I almost don't want Dombrandt and Smith to get picked for England. Test rugby, especially under Jones, will kill their flair.

[Dragster]

Cheered for Quins until I lost my voice- brilliant game, unreal win for the good guys. There’s something rotten with those weird plum down at Exeter. And you Gustard you Wolfpack helmet.

[Hells Bells]

The England A game has been Calle doff due to further COVID cases in the Scotland squad

Feel for the players, some of them might never get the chance to wear an England jersey again after this.

[geordie_6]

The England A game has been Calle doff due to further COVID cases in the Scotland squad

Feel for the players, some of them might never get the chance to wear an England jersey again after this.

Bollocks.

It's a second team game, can't we just lend them some.of our subs?

[Raggs]

Moved a family lunch a couple of hours to make room for me to watch the match after missing the games yesterday. Bollocks. Was really looking forward to that one.

[Hells Bells]

Is the new squad for the USA/Canada games being named today?

Wonder who will be dropping out, presume Smith/Dombrandt/Marchant will definitely be called up from Quins (maybe Lynagh too). From Exeter I think he’ll rest Slade and Nowell but Williams/J Simmonds/Devoto/O’Flaherty could be picked.

[sockwithaticket]

It would be astonishing if that main Quins trio weren't involved.


I would be genuinely disappointed if O'Flaherty got picked. He's definitely no better than other wingers who've already dropped out of the squad (Hassell-Collins), let alone those already there. Equally don't see any point picking Nowell and as someone who's basically been injured all season he'll get more out of a full pre-season than being beasted in England camp. We'll also learn absolutely nothing new by chucking him on against Canada or the US.

[SaintK]

[/b]

Agreed when he burst on the scene he was a total wrecking ball (for Bath iirc)

Random/WTF/eh? post of the day winner.

Why?? I was agreeing that Auterac looked really good for a spell ??

To be fair you could have probably timed that spell in minutes!!!

[SaintK]

Nizaam Carr back to Wasps for a third spell

[sockwithaticket]

[/b]

Agreed when he burst on the scene he was a total wrecking ball (for Bath iirc)

Random/WTF/eh? post of the day winner.

Why?? I was agreeing that Auterac looked really good for a spell ??

I think he was more poking at quoting a 25 day old post that wasn't relevant to the current discussion. But, yes, it was with Bath where he initially looked like he might have a stellar future ahead of him. Then, like so any Bath props it seems, the injuries set in.

[sockwithaticket]

Nizaam Carr back to Wasps for a third spell

Pleased with that, he was very good for us and plays across the back row, so adds worthwhile versatility. We've been caught a bit short in the back row without Willis and Barbeary for most of the season, plus Young and Vailanu being absent for chunks. With both Willis boys on the England radar (albeit Tom was dropped from the Summer squad) and Barbeary probably being pushed more towards hooker going forward we need some additional back row depth. Quality depth too. He's an honest toiler, but you don't want to be relying on Ben Morris in big games.

[assfly]

Nizaam Carr back to Wasps for a third spell

Not sure why he even left. Must be on a good package and playing in much more exciting leagues.

[JM2K6]

It would be astonishing if that main Quins trio weren't involved.


I would be genuinely disappointed if O'Flaherty got picked. He's definitely no better than other wingers who've already dropped out of the squad (Hassell-Collins), let alone those already there. Equally don't see any point picking Nowell and as someone who's basically been injured all season he'll get more out of a full pre-season than being beasted in England camp. We'll also learn absolutely nothing new by chucking him on against Canada or the US.

O'Flaherty has been incredibly consistent this season. I also would like OH-C in there instead, but there's not a lot more O'Flaherty could do to demand selection, really.

Was going to do this anyway, but Premiership stats are fun reads.


Marcus Smith and Sam Simmonds frankly dicking everyone for points and tries respectively. Simmonds with more points as an 8 than Twelvetrees, Henry, Umaga, and Sheedy is pretty funny. Smith right up there for tries scored. Care and Dombrandt doing really well. Marchant with a lot of tries and a lot of metres. Dombrandt with "back three" amounts of metres. O'Flaherty smashing everyone for metres gained, though - huge gap at the top.



Marchant - given he wasn't playing that well until the turn of the year - with a ridiculous number of clean breaks here. OH-C right up there, then Dombrandt again. O'Flaherty showing up really well, ditto Sam Simmonds. Marcus Smith sneaks in with 20. O'Flaherty dicking everyone with defenders beaten. Ridiculous stuff. Simmonds and Mercer not really a surprise there. Green with silly numbers given he's not played that much. Marchant again...



Madness from Ludlow, but the most important tackle stats here are Simmonds and Dombrandt. Simmonds gets through an absolute mountain of work, he's a phenomenon. Dombrandt's defence is something I've questioned as being his biggest weakness but fair play, those are impressive numbers. Will Evans has almost double the turnovers of the nearest competitor despite missing a third of the season. Mad stuff. Good to see LCD, Curry, Dombrandt doing well there too - and Tom Willis, who has picked up a fair few tries and despite not being as box office as Simmonds and Dombrandt deserves to be looked at.

[sockwithaticket]

People who say Simmonds isn't doing anything if he's not running half the length of the pitch to score tries or that he relies on big back rowers alongside him really miss the defensive work he does. A tackle count that high is even more notable given that he plays in a team that holds onto possession more than any other in the league. Reid's tackle total is also notable given he's not been a clear first choice for Bath this season.

Tom Willis being that far up the turnover chart is a pleasant surprise.

Such a shame Evans got broken, he'd have had a real shot at gunning for Jack Willis' record from last season.



O'Flaherty, while he does a lot well and has had possibly his best season, doesn't look to have a well rounded enough game for the next level. Thinking particularly of aerial and kicking.

[JM2K6]

Tabai Matson confirmed for Quins next season





Yeah, don't get me wrong I don't think TOF is a flawless player or anything, but he has been phenomenal and if we're talking about players getting a look in for England during a Lions summer, I also don't think it's unfair. I wouldn't play him and Malins in the same team for example but he's worth looking at IMO.

[ASMO]

It would be astonishing if that main Quins trio weren't involved.


I would be genuinely disappointed if O'Flaherty got picked. He's definitely no better than other wingers who've already dropped out of the squad (Hassell-Collins), let alone those already there. Equally don't see any point picking Nowell and as someone who's basically been injured all season he'll get more out of a full pre-season than being beasted in England camp. We'll also learn absolutely nothing new by chucking him on against Canada or the US.

Would like to see Piers O'Conor given a shot as well, he has been pretty decent this year, is a big unit so can do the tracking up but also has a decent turn of pace as well.

[Kawazaki]

The problem with suggesting any player in form with great performance stats and standout performances for his club as a potential England player is that none of those things matter. Literally none of them. In fact, the more you and the media point them out and highlight them the less likely that player will be picked for England.

[JM2K6]

Harlequins’ Joe Marchant and uncapped trio Alex Dombrandt, Jack Kenningham and Marcus Smith join the squad after winning the Gallagher Premiership final last weekend.

Exeter Chiefs’ Henry Slade has also been called up, while Wasps’ Gabriel Oghre has returned to the squad after being involved in the first training week. The squad includes 23 uncapped players. Chunya Munga is in camp as an apprentice player.

Ollie Sleightholme was unavailable for selection after suffering concussion in training.

Jones said: “This is the third and final phase of our selection. We have a squad here full of talent and potential, with 23 uncapped players who have the chance to make their England debut.

“We’ve had two good weeks working and training hard and now we look forward to seeing how far we can go.”

Both matches are live on Channel 4.

ENGLAND SQUAD

FORWARDS
Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Callum Chick (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Ben Curry (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Trevor Davison (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, uncapped)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 21 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 28 caps)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 1 cap)
Jack Kenningham (Harlequins, uncapped)
Curtis Langdon (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 8 caps)
Lewis Ludlow (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Josh McNally (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Chunya Munga (London Irish, uncapped)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, 1 cap)
Gabriel Oghre (Wasps, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 22 caps)
Harry Wells (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)

BACKS
Josh Bassett (Wasps, uncapped)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 9 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 3 caps)
Dan Kelly (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 6 caps)
Max Malins (Bristol Bears, on loan from Saracens, 7 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 5 caps)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Max Ojomoh (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons, uncapped)
Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, uncapped)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 12 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 38 caps)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, uncapped)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, uncapped)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps, uncapped)

[SaintK]

Exeter Chiefs’ Henry Slade has also been called up,

Really not sure why he isn't being rested?

[Kawazaki]

9. Robson
10. Smith
11. Radwan
12. Ojomoh
13. Lawrence
14. Bassett
15. Malins

[sockwithaticket]

I reckon Dan Kelly would be picked ahead of Ojomoh.

O'Connor is unlucky to miss out. He's been great in either centre position for most of the season. Kids like Ojomoh should really have to get more than 2 Prem games under their belt before being elevated to the national team even if it's just for the USA and Canada. He's looked super talented in the few moments he's spent on a pitch this season, but there's really not much to go on.

I'd be waiting to see how players cope with second season syndrome before involving them, but clearly Eddie thinks otherwise.

[duke]

Ojomoh is like Munga, in the squad to get a taster, can’t see him getting game time. Would have liked to have seen Ollie Devoto get another opportunity now that he’s been able to string some games together.

[Kawazaki]

I reckon Dan Kelly would be picked ahead of Ojomoh.

O'Connor is unlucky to miss out. He's been great in either centre position for most of the season. Kids like Ojomoh should really have to get more than 2 Prem games under their belt before being elevated to the national team even if it's just for the USA and Canada. He's looked super talented in the few moments he's spent on a pitch this season, but there's really not much to go on.

I'd be waiting to see how players cope with second season syndrome before involving them, but clearly Eddie thinks otherwise.

Yes but everyone has been raving about Piers O'Connor ergo he never stood a chance.

[JM2K6]

It is weird that the best two English 12s in the Premiership this season miss out.

[SaintK]

Ojomoh is like Munga, in the squad to get a taster, can’t see him getting game time. Would have liked to have seen Ollie Devoto get another opportunity now that he’s been able to string some games together.

Yep!!!!

[sockwithaticket]

I reckon Dan Kelly would be picked ahead of Ojomoh.

O'Connor is unlucky to miss out. He's been great in either centre position for most of the season. Kids like Ojomoh should really have to get more than 2 Prem games under their belt before being elevated to the national team even if it's just for the USA and Canada. He's looked super talented in the few moments he's spent on a pitch this season, but there's really not much to go on.

I'd be waiting to see how players cope with second season syndrome before involving them, but clearly Eddie thinks otherwise.

Yes but everyone has been raving about Piers O'Connor ergo he never stood a chance.

Have they? I feel like we have on here, but haven't rally picked up much buzz elsewhere. Certainly not Dombrandt/Simmonds-esque buzz. Eddie seems to have come around on Dombrandt, but there was a point when he could only have been ignoring the guy out of spite given how impressive he was and how little some players have had to do to get a squad call up.

Surely Eddie doesn't stoop to browsing NPR to decide which players he'll snub?

[Kawazaki]

I've got no idea how Eddie Jones thinks other than that Eddie Jones's ego gets first consideration in any decision Eddie Jones makes.

[JM2K6]

Also, pretty fucking funny that George Martin goes from playing for England in the 6N to not even making the squad for the "best of the rest" summer matches.

[sockwithaticket]

Jeez, completely forgot about that. it is daft considering how low down the depth chart we're going for second rows.

[JM2K6]

Also Joe Simmonds must wonder how the hell Umaga stays in ahead of him!

[Kawazaki]

And Ben Spencer ignored again, or even worse, picked and then told to fuck off again.

[Oxbow]

Also, pretty fucking funny that George Martin goes from playing for England in the 6N to not even making the squad for the "best of the rest" summer matches.

Still makes me angry that, an Eddie knows best waste of a cap, there were numerous players far more deserving of being in the squad.

[Raggs]

Maybe he's joining up with the u20s? Maybe he's got some niggles? Maybe Eddie wants him to focus on bulking up? If it was a regular summer tour, I'd agree, but it's not. Martin isn't a senior player to help give the youngsters someone to look upto/follow, nor does he necessarily have anything more to prove to Eddie. We don't know. I'd not read much into this squad myself.

[Glaston]

It would be astonishing if that main Quins trio weren't involved.


I would be genuinely disappointed if O'Flaherty got picked. He's definitely no better than other wingers who've already dropped out of the squad (Hassell-Collins), let alone those already there. Equally don't see any point picking Nowell and as someone who's basically been injured all season he'll get more out of a full pre-season than being beasted in England camp. We'll also learn absolutely nothing new by chucking him on against Canada or the US.

O' flaherty had some very poor games earlier in the season.


Still confused by Eddie picking McConnachie for the RWC and ignoring him after that. One of the most pointless squad picks .

[Kawazaki]

It would be astonishing if that main Quins trio weren't involved.


I would be genuinely disappointed if O'Flaherty got picked. He's definitely no better than other wingers who've already dropped out of the squad (Hassell-Collins), let alone those already there. Equally don't see any point picking Nowell and as someone who's basically been injured all season he'll get more out of a full pre-season than being beasted in England camp. We'll also learn absolutely nothing new by chucking him on against Canada or the US.

O' flaherty had some very poor games earlier in the season.


Still confused by Eddie picking McConnachie for the RWC and ignoring him after that. One of the most pointless squad picks .

I think picking just two scrumhalves trumps that. Especially when one of them is Ben Youngs.

[Hal Jordan]

Pleased for but slightly confused by Kennigham's selection. He's looked good on the run in to the title but I'm not sure he's Test level (yet).

Anyway, he won't get picked, Jones will probably do an Andy Robinson and pick Ludlam, Curry and Underhill in a tombola number selection with Dombrant and Hill on the bench to come on at 6 and 7 respectively in the second half.