The Official English Rugby Thread

[Lobby]

Lynagh would be mad to join Italy. He's just a kid who's barely had 12 months of first team rugby and could easily develop into a cracking option for England or Australia.

From the article posted elsewhere, it’s pretty clear that all three have said thanks, but no thanks.

Even if Eddie doesn’t pick them, he’s only going to be around for another two years, so there will still be opportunities for all three to play for England (and especially so for Odogwu and Lynagh). Playing for Italy might also jeopardize their club contracts, as it would make them unavailable during the international season.

[JM2K6]

Lynagh would be mad to join Italy. He's just a kid who's barely had 12 months of first team rugby and could easily develop into a cracking option for England or Australia.

From the article posted elsewhere, it’s pretty clear that all three have said thanks, but no thanks.

Even if Eddie doesn’t pick them, he’s only going to be around for another two years, so there will still be opportunities for all three to play for England (and especially so for Odogwu and Lynagh). Playing for Italy might also jeopardize their club contracts, as it would make them unavailable during the international season.

Exactly. It'd be a total waste. I edited my previous post to say it but Lynagh has nothing to complain about - he wasn't treated like Odogwu and instead should be thrilled that he was brought into the training squad at this stage of his career.

[sockwithaticket]

I wondered if somebody would mention Lozowski.



Let's put it this way, the evidence that Lozowski is a good tackler, or in fact a destructive offensive tackler, is (far) easier to find than the rather incongruous view that Twelvetrees tackles like that.

Italy talking to Lozowski (Italian Granny) as well as Lynagh and Odogwu

Italy head coach Kieran Crowley says he has spoken directly with Harlequins wing Louis Lynagh and Saracens fly-half Alex Lozowski about their availability for the Azzurri. The New Zealander also confirmed there had been contact with Wasps wing Paolo Odogwu, whose father is of Italian descent, on the same subject.

They'd be mad not to join Italy. Eddie Jones must have fucked them off royally with his bizarre selection strategy. Who's going to trust the process is meritocratic for the RWC with him still in charge?

Only 18 months left of Eddie.

This time last year Odogwu was in the 6N squad, if it wasn't for a lengthy injury he's only just returned from he may well have been involved in the summer and autumn squads. No reason to throw his lot in with a country he's on record as saying he's not interested in representing unless Eddie's successor makes it clear there's little hope of getting capped. Still a young man, 25 next month.

[sturginho]

Lynagh would be mad to join Italy. He's just a kid who's barely had 12 months of first team rugby and could easily develop into a cracking option for England or Australia.

From the article posted elsewhere, it’s pretty clear that all three have said thanks, but no thanks.

Even if Eddie doesn’t pick them, he’s only going to be around for another two years, so there will still be opportunities for all three to play for England (and especially so for Odogwu and Lynagh). Playing for Italy might also jeopardize their club contracts, as it would make them unavailable during the international season.

Exactly. It'd be a total waste. I edited my previous post to say it but Lynagh has nothing to complain about - he wasn't treated like Odogwu and instead should be thrilled that he was brought into the training squad at this stage of his career.

From what Andrea Masi has said, if the FIR had pulled their finger out sooner Odogwu would already be playing for Italy

[Raggs]

From the article posted elsewhere, it’s pretty clear that all three have said thanks, but no thanks.

Even if Eddie doesn’t pick them, he’s only going to be around for another two years, so there will still be opportunities for all three to play for England (and especially so for Odogwu and Lynagh). Playing for Italy might also jeopardize their club contracts, as it would make them unavailable during the international season.

Exactly. It'd be a total waste. I edited my previous post to say it but Lynagh has nothing to complain about - he wasn't treated like Odogwu and instead should be thrilled that he was brought into the training squad at this stage of his career.

From what Andrea Masi has said, if the FIR had pulled their finger out sooner Odogwu would already be playing for Italy

There was absolutely a window in which they could have had him, when he was with Sale, they'd loaned him out to nat 1 I think?

[Woddy]

I wondered if somebody would mention Lozowski.



Let's put it this way, the evidence that Lozowski is a good tackler, or in fact a destructive offensive tackler, is (far) easier to find than the rather incongruous view that Twelvetrees tackles like that.

I thought I'd referenced Twelvetrees actually putting in an impressive defensive shift in an England shirt.

His defensive 'crime' seems to be mucking up one tackle (noting that this isn't generally seen as the reason for his future non-selection) - which Lozowski has also done.

36 was unlucky in who he played with and when. Often between a crowbar and a brick, brought on chasing a game and felt he had to force passes to make something happen. His defence was pretty good, workrate first-rate and he had all the skills. Most all-round 12 we’ve had since Greenwood/Catt days (both of whom also missed tackles now and again…).

Allen got handed off and burnt once by that AB non-entity Carter and never forgiven for it. Very harsh!

[Kawazaki]

Times article lists all the different centre partnerships that Eddie Jones has tried in just 6 seasons since 2016...

Pick your best, worst and WTF combinations.

Midfield merry-go-round
Since 2016 Eddie Jones has used 28 different midfield combinations wearing numbers 10, 12 and 13. He will use a 29th against Scotland next weekend
Ford-Farrell-Joseph
18
Ford-Farrell-Slade
8
Ford-Farrell-Tuilagi
8
Farrell-Tuilagi-Slade
4
Ford-Francis-Joseph
3
Ford-Farrell-Te’o
3
Farrell-Te’o-Slade
3
Ford-Lozowski-Slade
2
Farrell-Slade-Lawrence
2
Ford-Burrell-Joseph
1
Farrell-Burrell-Joseph
1
Ford-Farrell-Daly
1
Ford-Francis-Slade
1
Ford-Slade-Joseph
1
Farrell-Te’o-Joseph
1
Cipriani-Farrell-Slade
1
Ford-Lozowski-Nowell
1
Farrell-Te’o-Tuilagi
1
Farrell-Francis-Marchant
1
Farrell-Tuilagi-Slade
1
Farrell-Slade-Joseph
1
Farrell-Lawrence-Slade
1
Ford-Farrell-Lawrence
1
Smith-Lawrence-Slade
1
Smith-Kelly-Slade
1
Furbank-Tuilagi-Slade
1
Smith-Farrell-Slade
1
Smith-Tuilagi-Slade
1
Chart: The Times and The Sunday Times

[JM2K6]

Genuinely suprised that Ford-Farrell-Slade is equal with Ford-Farrell-Tuilagi. Seems like the former has been used way more often, but I guess that proves the point.

I definitely do not remember Burrell playing under Eddie!

[Kawazaki]

Blink and you missed it.

[sockwithaticket]

First one to get the shepherd's crook before half time under Eddie wasn't he?

[Happyhooker]

A quick google has him playing twice under eddie.

The summer match against wales in 2016, then the 1st test against aus where he was pulled after 28 mins

[Oxbow]

He got recalled against Wales then only went and scored a try, much to everyone's chagrin, because it meant he got the game against Australia. Normal service was soon resumed though. Ah, I still have a soft spot for Luther, he usually did alright for Saints.

[Madness]

With all of those random combos is would have been nice to see Ford, Manu, Slade at some point!

The team is really in transition at the moment, not sure if its injury driven or Eddie changing the direction but this is the 23 from the world cup final just over 2 years ago.

Mako - gone
George - 2nd choice?
Sinks - unchallenged starter
Itoje - unchallenged starter
Lawes - Where does he start?
Curry - Great 6 or 7, not a great 8
Underhill - gone?
Billy - gone
Youngs - hurrah.........
Ford - injury back up
May - broken and out of form
Farrell - broken
Manu - broken-ish but as traditional will be back and make a big difference then get broken again
Watson - broken
Daly - broken and unsure of position

LCD - moved up to start choice
Marler - still there
Cole - very gone
Kruis - holiday
Wilson - gone
Spencer - gone
Slade - moved up to start choice
Joseph - gone

[Woddy]

At least we got to see Smith, Manu, Slade for 5 glorious minutes and it worked for as long as Manu's hamstring held (or whatever it was). So we can posit that it would have done with Ford too.

Interesting to see the changes since the 2019 final team. Had forgotten that Jones went for a 5-3 bench, and against SA of all teams. We were light on locks for the tournament! Of those likely playing in the 6Ns, I'd say that Nowell and Genge were in the gang for 2019, just didn't play or sub in the final for reasons. I've not seen anything to suggest Jones has changed direction. The biggest differences are that we now have a FB who can catch the high ball and that we don't have a crash-ball 8. The latter is enforced by lack of suitable candidates rather than a deliberate tactical switch, I'd argue.

[Kawazaki]

At least we got to see Smith, Manu, Slade for 5 glorious minutes and it worked for as long as Manu's hamstring held (or whatever it was). So we can posit that it would have done with Ford too.

Interesting to see the changes since the 2019 final team. Had forgotten that Jones went for a 5-3 bench, and against SA of all teams. We were light on locks for the tournament! Of those likely playing in the 6Ns, I'd say that Nowell and Genge were in the gang for 2019, just didn't play or sub in the final for reasons. I've not seen anything to suggest Jones has changed direction. The biggest differences are that we now have a FB who can catch the high ball and that we don't have a crash-ball 8. The latter is enforced by lack of suitable candidates rather than a deliberate tactical switch, I'd argue.

Billy Vunipola is still playing.

[Lady P]

Bath v Quins tonight. Find myself hoping Bath aren’t a complete embarrassment, got to wonder how long it can carry on like this.

[duke]

Bath v Quins tonight. Find myself hoping Bath aren’t a complete embarrassment, got to wonder how long it can carry on like this.

Don’t hold your breath. We’ve picked Max Ojomoh
at 10, Rokodiguni at 15 and appear to have run out of open side flankers completely. Then there’s Nathan Hughes making his debut as well…..

[ASMO]

Bath v Quins tonight. Find myself hoping Bath aren’t a complete embarrassment, got to wonder how long it can carry on like this.

Don’t hold your breath. We’ve picked Max Ojomoh
at 10, Rokodiguni at 15 and appear to have run out of open side flankers completely. Then there’s Nathan Hughes making his debut as well…..

Given that Quins are missing what, 5 starters to England? i am expecting it will only be a 40 point shellacking.

[Margin__Walker]

Bath v Quins tonight. Find myself hoping Bath aren’t a complete embarrassment, got to wonder how long it can carry on like this.

Don’t hold your breath. We’ve picked Max Ojomoh
at 10, Rokodiguni at 15 and appear to have run out of open side flankers completely. Then there’s Nathan Hughes making his debut as well…..

[Kawazaki]

Look on the bright side, Nathan Hughes might be an over-payed, out of form, 120kg peaheart who's been dialling it in for years but at least he's only been exposed to a few sessions of Bath's coaches showing him how to play.

[duke]

Look on the bright side, Nathan Hughes might be an over-payed, out of form, 120kg peaheart who's been dialling it in for years but at least he's only been exposed to a few sessions of Bath's coaches showing him how to play.

Trouble is, he’s been exposed to the jacuzzi as well

[Margin__Walker]

Whilst we're on a laugh at Bath trip, this is a good one. How on earth can you have a talent like Mercer in your squad and not make him feel valued?

[Brazil]

I'd have Mercer at Sale in a heartbeat, particularly given that Jono Ross can't sustain the concussions he's getting for much longer, at least going by what he puts up on Twitter.

Bath look properly fucked, I really can't see how Hooper can continue and it needs a proper root and branch clear out through the whole system from the looks of it.

[Monk]

what's the story witrh Faf? When is he back?

[JM2K6]

Bath v Quins tonight. Find myself hoping Bath aren’t a complete embarrassment, got to wonder how long it can carry on like this.

Don’t hold your breath. We’ve picked Max Ojomoh
at 10, Rokodiguni at 15 and appear to have run out of open side flankers completely. Then there’s Nathan Hughes making his debut as well…..

Given that Quins are missing what, 5 starters to England? i am expecting it will only be a 40 point shellacking.

Plenty of injuries, mind, and Jones is having to start. 3rd choice blindside playing 8, bin juice at 7, third choice lock at 6 - it's an ugly back row given the absentees elsewhere. Can see it being a really patchy performance

[Brazil]

what's the story witrh Faf? When is he back?

Funnily enough I've just asked the same on the Sale board. Something makes me think March, but I'm hoping it's sooner than that.

Edit - 3-5 weeks apparently.

[ASMO]

I'd have Mercer at Sale in a heartbeat, particularly given that Jono Ross can't sustain the concussions he's getting for much longer, at least going by what he puts up on Twitter.

Bath look properly fucked, I really can't see how Hooper can continue and it needs a proper root and branch clear out through the whole system from the looks of it.

I don't think Sale can sustain and stream of penalties, yellow cards and lost points that Jono Ross brings more than anything else, he is a liability.

[Woddy]

At least we got to see Smith, Manu, Slade for 5 glorious minutes and it worked for as long as Manu's hamstring held (or whatever it was). So we can posit that it would have done with Ford too.

Interesting to see the changes since the 2019 final team. Had forgotten that Jones went for a 5-3 bench, and against SA of all teams. We were light on locks for the tournament! Of those likely playing in the 6Ns, I'd say that Nowell and Genge were in the gang for 2019, just didn't play or sub in the final for reasons. I've not seen anything to suggest Jones has changed direction. The biggest differences are that we now have a FB who can catch the high ball and that we don't have a crash-ball 8. The latter is enforced by lack of suitable candidates rather than a deliberate tactical switch, I'd argue.

Billy Vunipola is still playing.

Not for England, he isn't.

[Kawazaki]

At least we got to see Smith, Manu, Slade for 5 glorious minutes and it worked for as long as Manu's hamstring held (or whatever it was). So we can posit that it would have done with Ford too.

Interesting to see the changes since the 2019 final team. Had forgotten that Jones went for a 5-3 bench, and against SA of all teams. We were light on locks for the tournament! Of those likely playing in the 6Ns, I'd say that Nowell and Genge were in the gang for 2019, just didn't play or sub in the final for reasons. I've not seen anything to suggest Jones has changed direction. The biggest differences are that we now have a FB who can catch the high ball and that we don't have a crash-ball 8. The latter is enforced by lack of suitable candidates rather than a deliberate tactical switch, I'd argue.

Billy Vunipola is still playing.

Not for England, he isn't.

Just responding to your comment.

[inactionman]

Bath v Quins tonight. Find myself hoping Bath aren’t a complete embarrassment, got to wonder how long it can carry on like this.

Don’t hold your breath. We’ve picked Max Ojomoh
at 10, Rokodiguni at 15 and appear to have run out of open side flankers completely. Then there’s Nathan Hughes making his debut as well…..

When I saw the squad announcement I just thought someone had mucked up the numbers/order.

But, no, they're serious.

[inactionman]

Whilst we're on a laugh at Bath trip, this is a good one. How on earth can you have a talent like Mercer in your squad and not make him feel valued?

He got chopped around the backrow a bit which didn't help matters.

[Kawazaki]

I don't like the sound of this at all...

[inactionman]

I don't like the sound of this at all...

Nope, don;'t like the sound of it either - fingers crossed nothing serious (it's obviously not trivial to have to take leave of absence, but you know what I mean)

[SaintK]

I don't like the sound of this at all...

Spoiler

Show

Spoiler

Show

"Medical reasons" Hopefully nothing a a few weeks R&R won't cure and not anything serious.
My mate was in at Saracens today and nothing said from players and coaches he works with

[Lobby]

Quins butcher two tries in the first 4 minutes again.

[Lady P]

Ref feels sorry for Bath if they get a penalty try when Quins got b all.

Wish we would stop dropping the ball.

[Lobby]

Ref feels sorry for Bath if they get a penalty try when Quins got b all.

Wish we would stop dropping the ball.

Surprised Bath didn’t get a card for 5 scrum penalties in a row, but Green’s having a mare again.

[Kawazaki]

Spencer's box kicks are so high. Hang time is ridiculous. Ojomoh looks lively as well.

Quins by 30

[Lobby]

Lovely

[sockwithaticket]

Huw Jones passed?!