The Official English Rugby Thread

[Paddington Bear]

Johnny Hill's looking more and more normal (relatively speaking) the longer he spends up North. Sorted out his shit facial hair and now growing the stuff on his head out just a touch and sans mullet.

What minute will Sale first go down to 14 men?

They remarkably made it 24 minutes in, but have now made amends by shipping two yellows in two minutes.

Incidentally post match pub discussion yesterday turned to naming an all time England ‘Cunt XV’, Hill was one of the first names on the teamsheet

[sockwithaticket]

Johnny Hill's looking more and more normal (relatively speaking) the longer he spends up North. Sorted out his shit facial hair and now growing the stuff on his head out just a touch and sans mullet.

What minute will Sale first go down to 14 men?

They remarkably made it 24 minutes in, but have now made amends by shipping two yellows in two minutes.

Incidentally post match pub discussion yesterday turned to naming an all time England ‘Cunt XV’, Hill was one of the first names on the teamsheet

Probably doubled down to make amends for disappointing everyone by allowing Exeter to cede the first yellow.

Hill with a braindead penalty...

[JM2K6]

Sanderson talked about phoning refs up to have a whinge at them after matches. Not quite how he portrayed it but his moans about consistency and interpretation leave little room for doubt. Not a good look tbh.

[Torquemada 1420]

Alternative to JM's Farrell theory is just that he's thick.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Farrell does have something of a talent about him, but too he has something of an unco about him. Some passes zip exactly as you want, some remind of Luther Burrell flinging a ball out in hope. And then there's the decision making, sometimes he does get the team as a whole moving as you want, sometimes really not and he's passing so early that a defence that as already drifting out as they don't believe he can run is right on top of the people he's needlessly dropping in the shite

And then to consider the kicking (and he may have an injury but if so don't declare yourself fit) which wasn't just bad going for goal, there was the charge down and punting the ball out on the full even before some weird attacking kicks that didn't work and on another day could prove very costly

I do think he has something to offer England, but it's as the 22 covering 10 and 12, there are too many better options to be starting for him to be a starter, and that's been the case for most of his 100 odd caps.

[Joost]

Interesting theory about Farrell from JCM and agree with most of that, but this really doesn’t ring true to me:

At international level it feels like he thinks it need to be all about him, the captaincy probably adds a huge amount to that, and the years of having smoke blown up his arse about being a world class 10 despite his deeply inconsistent performances in that shirt for England can't have helped him remain humble.

Almost everything you hear from fellow players and coaches who have worked with him is that he’s all about the team and he certainly doesn’t seem to relish the limelight or want to be a ‘personality’. I reckon if the coaches told him he’s no longer the playmaking and his jjob was to play 12 and bash it up/straighten the line, fix players and pass he’d absolutely do it to the best of his ability.

[JM2K6]

Interesting theory about Farrell from JCM and agree with most of that, but this really doesn’t ring true to me:

At international level it feels like he thinks it need to be all about him, the captaincy probably adds a huge amount to that, and the years of having smoke blown up his arse about being a world class 10 despite his deeply inconsistent performances in that shirt for England can't have helped him remain humble.

Almost everything you hear from fellow players and coaches who have worked with him is that he’s all about the team and he certainly doesn’t seem to relish the limelight or want to be a ‘personality’. I reckon if the coaches told him he’s no longer the playmaking and his jjob was to play 12 and bash it up/straighten the line, fix players and pass he’d absolutely do it to the best of his ability.

Right, but we're told a lot about Farrell that doesn't square with what we keep seeing on the pitch. It's conjecture of course, I'm not claiming it as fact; ultimately whatever the reason, it has been a consistent theme that he ends up being the main man, for good or bad. I also think off the pitch it's a totally different story and I've never sought to criticise what he does there or downplay it, but I do think that sometimes everything that happens outside of the match can make it hard for coaches and players to take a logical and critical view of what the final product is.

You can shun the limelight and be all about the team and still fervently believe the right thing to do is to take control at every opportunity rather than take second billing. Especially if someone is banging the drum about you being the senior player in an inexperienced team, etc.

What I really want is not for the coaches to demand he does that. I want a Farrell that recognises it's needed. The best players adapt before they're told to. At his level of experience and seniority it's so weird that we're having similar discussions about him to the ones we were having back when he was making his first steps in an England shirt.

[Torquemada 1420]

What I really want is not for the coaches to demand he does that. I want a Farrell that recognises it's needed. The best players adapt before they're told to.

Good luck with that. In the modern game, that's very unlikely since the players are coached to within an inch of their lives not to think for themselves. And those that do are generally shunned for their "maverick" (seen as a liability) status. Think Townsend-Flake, Galthie-Jalibert, Eng-anyone other than Farrell.

The only place I regularly see players given that licence is NPC/ITM.

[Paddington Bear]

Christ alive, pass the ball rather than 20 phases of pick and go

[Joost]

What I really want is not for the coaches to demand he does that. I want a Farrell that recognises it's needed. The best players adapt before they're told to.

Good luck with that. In the modern game, that's very unlikely since the players are coached to within an inch of their lives not to think for themselves. And those that do are generally shunned for their "maverick" (seen as a liability) status. Think Townsend-Flake, Galthie-Jalibert, Eng-anyone other than Farrell.

The only place I regularly see players given that licence is NPC/ITM.

I think it’s a bit unrealistic to expect Farrell to independently take a back seat when he’s been made captain and given the game management role by the coaching staff - that’s not ego, it’s doing the role that he’s been assigned (reckon he’d always do the role he’s given, whatever it was - that’s why coaches love him so much).

Problem is he’s badly out of form at present, making bad decisions in attack and not kicking goals (two of the main points he’s picked for) - Borthers needs to make a call on that at some point, unless he has a big game against France - something that you wouldn’t rule out - the man is a competitor, whatever limitations he has.

[Biffer]

Some of these English and Welsh fellas on here get a bit nippy if you say they played a shit game, don’t they?

Pleasing to see any pretence that arrogance and condescension is a particularly English trait being fucked straight into a bin the minute Scotland wins two consecutive 6N matches.

Guys, apologies, I thought I’d posted that in the general 6Nations thread, not your national one.

[Biffer]

Some of these English and Welsh fellas on here get a bit nippy if you say they played a shit game, don’t they?

How about you get the fuck out of our thread if you're just going to be a prick?

It's more the supercilious tone of supporters of a team who are 0 in 5 against the likes of Ireland, South Africa and New Zealand that rankles.

Thought I was in the six nations thread, sorry about that. I’m more into winding up the Welshnif I’m absolutely honest.

[JM2K6]

What I really want is not for the coaches to demand he does that. I want a Farrell that recognises it's needed. The best players adapt before they're told to.

Good luck with that. In the modern game, that's very unlikely since the players are coached to within an inch of their lives not to think for themselves. And those that do are generally shunned for their "maverick" (seen as a liability) status. Think Townsend-Flake, Galthie-Jalibert, Eng-anyone other than Farrell.

The only place I regularly see players given that licence is NPC/ITM.

I think it’s a bit unrealistic to expect Farrell to independently take a back seat when he’s been made captain and given the game management role by the coaching staff - that’s not ego, it’s doing the role that he’s been assigned (reckon he’d always do the role he’s given, whatever it was - that’s why coaches love him so much).

Problem is he’s badly out of form at present, making bad decisions in attack and not kicking goals (two of the main points he’s picked for) - Borthers needs to make a call on that at some point, unless he has a big game against France - something that you wouldn’t rule out - the man is a competitor, whatever limitations he has.

I do get what you're saying and you're right. My point has gotten a little confused.

[Paddington Bear]

Plenty of evidence that France are very touchable in the three games so far, though we’ll have to put a lot more pace into the game than we have so far.

Any idea if we made any effort to keep Huw Jones? One of the more underrated players put there IMO

[GogLais]

Some of these English and Welsh fellas on here get a bit nippy if you say they played a shit game, don’t they?

How about you get the fuck out of our thread if you're just going to be a prick?

It's more the supercilious tone of supporters of a team who are 0 in 5 against the likes of Ireland, South Africa and New Zealand that rankles.

Thought I was in the six nations thread, sorry about that. I’m more into winding up the Welshnif I’m absolutely honest.

Ha. We’re pretty well unwindupable atm.

[Hal Jordan]

Some of these English and Welsh fellas on here get a bit nippy if you say they played a shit game, don’t they?

Pleasing to see any pretence that arrogance and condescension is a particularly English trait being fucked straight into a bin the minute Scotland wins two consecutive 6N matches.

Guys, apologies, I thought I’d posted that in the general 6Nations thread, not your national one.

This here's the English thread, son. You just keep on moving.

[sockwithaticket]

Some of these English and Welsh fellas on here get a bit nippy if you say they played a shit game, don’t they?

How about you get the fuck out of our thread if you're just going to be a prick?

It's more the supercilious tone of supporters of a team who are 0 in 5 against the likes of Ireland, South Africa and New Zealand that rankles.

Thought I was in the six nations thread, sorry about that. I’m more into winding up the Welshnif I’m absolutely honest.

That's an act for the dedicated in this place, we've got, what, Gog and C69? Gog doesn't deserve to be wound up, he's a sound fella.

[GogLais]

How about you get the fuck out of our thread if you're just going to be a prick?

It's more the supercilious tone of supporters of a team who are 0 in 5 against the likes of Ireland, South Africa and New Zealand that rankles.

Thought I was in the six nations thread, sorry about that. I’m more into winding up the Welshnif I’m absolutely honest.

That's an act for the dedicated in this place, we've got, what, Gog and C69? Gog doesn't deserve to be wound up, he's a sound fella.

Very kind of you, I think I’ve lived here too long and been domesticated.

[Biffer]

The Welsh and the English being nice to each other. It’s the end times.

[inactionman]

The Welsh and the English being nice to each other. It’s the end times.

Putting the boot in would feel too cruel at this current time.

[Biffer]

The Welsh and the English being nice to each other. It’s the end times.

Putting the boot in would feel too cruel at this current time.

To be fair there’s a 50 50 chance you’d both miss.

[JM2K6]

Plenty of evidence that France are very touchable in the three games so far, though we’ll have to put a lot more pace into the game than we have so far.

Any idea if we made any effort to keep Huw Jones? One of the more underrated players put there IMO

Keep him when? The only time he's been involved with English rugby was at Quins, quite some time after he was capped by Scotland. Not sure how much he played at school.

He's always been an excellent runner and picks fabulous lines. Bit of a crowbar at the best of times and can be prone to brainfarts but in both respects he seems to have improved (tbh we saw that when Quins moved him to 15 for a bit).

[Joost]

Plenty of evidence that France are very touchable in the three games so far, though we’ll have to put a lot more pace into the game than we have so far.

Any idea if we made any effort to keep Huw Jones? One of the more underrated players put there IMO

More interested in if we tried to keep Ben White, he’s been excellent.

[inactionman]

The Welsh and the English being nice to each other. It’s the end times.

Putting the boot in would feel too cruel at this current time.

To be fair there’s a 50 50 chance you’d both miss.

Oh, if there's one thing this England team can do, it's kick.

[Kawazaki]

Plenty of evidence that France are very touchable in the three games so far, though we’ll have to put a lot more pace into the game than we have so far.

Any idea if we made any effort to keep Huw Jones? One of the more underrated players put there IMO

I seem to remember the Quins fans describing him as somewhere between utter shite and handicapped when he played for them.

[Kawazaki]

Plenty of evidence that France are very touchable in the three games so far, though we’ll have to put a lot more pace into the game than we have so far.

Any idea if we made any effort to keep Huw Jones? One of the more underrated players put there IMO

More interested in if we tried to keep Ben White, he’s been excellent.

He captained England U20s around the period when Ben Youngs was picking up caps numbering in the - I'm guessing - somewhere around his 90 to to 100 range.

Somebod could break Youngs' time down into 10 cap chunks and list the poor bastard that was ignored in favour of him.

[Margin__Walker]

Ben White's superb and a real shame he slipped through the net.

Ultimately, after the early promise he found himself 4th choice at Leicester (behind Youngs, Wigglesworth and an emerging JvP). The move away gave him the prem minutes he needed to fulfil his early promise. Sharp working from Scotland really, getting in there ahead of the curve on him.

[Slick]

The Welsh and the English being nice to each other. It’s the end times.

Putting the boot in would feel too cruel at this current time.

To be fair there’s a 50 50 chance you’d both miss.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Plenty of evidence that France are very touchable in the three games so far, though we’ll have to put a lot more pace into the game than we have so far.

Any idea if we made any effort to keep Huw Jones? One of the more underrated players put there IMO

I seem to remember the Quins fans describing him as somewhere between utter shite and handicapped when he played for them.

His first couple of games for Quins were pretty bad. He clearly had physical talent but made a string of awful decisions including - white line fever, stupid passes, stupid non-passes - dodgy tackling, bad kicks etc.

However he pretty rapidly started playing really well and I wish we could have kept him.

[Paddington Bear]

Just rewatched the game. Some thoughts:
- What was Wales' gameplan? Just constant kicking to Steward and then hope something turned up. Bizarre but I suppose in Zammit's try it kind of worked.

- If we accept the framing of rebuilding/developing a team, there is clear progress over three games. Wales are toothless, as a caveat, however the defensive system starts to look pretty well oiled. Clearly designed to bend but not break, with huge emphasis on contesting the breakdown. The back row were obviously front and centre of that but just about everyone close to a ruck was hitting the ruck hard and trying to get hands on the ball. We won tonnes of turnovers and a few pens, but it also completely gummed up Welsh ball every time they attacked, meaning Wales then tried to hit a well formed defensive set and ended up either losing the ball or kicking it away. England's workrate in defence was pretty phenomenal and the whole thing seems joined up in a way it absolutely was not against Scotland.

- Less well oiled was the attack, albeit you can start to see Evans' mark on it. The team seems caught between a dynamic attacking philosophy that Evans embodies, the percentages rugby of Borthwick which dictates that slow ball goes to the boot, and the Sinfield philosophy that attack is simply defence by other means. This meant we hesitated at a few key points where other sides would have broken through and quite possibly scored. You can see everyone not quite sure whether to run an attacking line or get in position to chase a kick, making the whole thing a little tentative. With that said, the Watson try was an excellent team try involving a well designed play excellently executed by quite a wide cast of characters, and represents the best strike move we've run since the win over the Boks in November '21.

This clash between kicking and running means that whereas in defence we were wonderfully cohesive and coordinated, in attack often going forward meant people were isolated and either lost the ball, conceded a penalty or it became a mess. A few nascent opportunities got shut down in positions where Ireland, France and Scotland would have at least got within 5 metres of the line in the subsequent phases.
This split-second decision making attacking style does not suit a process and system fly half like Farrell, and the answer of who runs this sort of game best is pretty obvious - George Ford. It was noticeable that Faz was at his best in attack working in conjunction with Malins, who obviously train together all the time.

- Our tactical kicking was very good, certainly not faultless (both Faz and JVP stuck one out on the full, Slade and Faz kicked away an overlap each) but it left us playing the game we wanted to in the areas of the pitch we needed to. One of the reasons it wasn't the most exciting game ever played is because we saw clearly we were going to win the kicking battle hands down. Steward took everything, every kick was returned with interest and 1/2p/Zammit etc were on the back foot, smashed straight after taking the ball and unable to generate a reply. Not Baabaas stuff but ten minutes could go by without Wales even hinting at an opportunity, which away in Cardiff you'd take every day.

- Goal kicking cost us a bonus point IMO. If we'd nailed the penalty to go 18-10 up I think we'd have then moved through the gears. As it was we played it safe to close out Borthwick's first "proper" win. Italy deserve better than that perspective but it 100% will have been preying on all their minds that lose yesterday and we're staring down the barrel of a 1 win tournament, the decision to stick to winning the tactical kicking battle was understandable.

- Our discipline is night and day to Eddie's era, I noticed the silly one in our own half for three points as the only egregious pen. Makes a huge difference

- Compete at lineouts! When Maro did go up the Welsh lineout disintegrated, at the very least it throws the opposition and you make a barely discernible gain at a maul from not competing.

Overall, I remain reasonably satisfied. The defensive system is clicking, and hopefully another fortnight of drilling it will have it ready for the ferocious challenge France will pose to it. The attack shows promise but is the wrong system for the 10 we have, either change the system or change the 10. Given his goal kicking post-ankle injuries I'd opt for the latter sadly, if we're going to compete in the final two games we have to kick everything, and with the world cup in mind it will likely light a fairly serious fire under his arse.
Bar making Faz captain, Borthwick is nailing the selection calls, Watson another example. I hope he has the courage to stick with Ludlam/Willis/Dombrandt as it is starting to work superbly.

[Random1]

Just rewatched the game. Some thoughts:
- What was Wales' gameplan? Just constant kicking to Steward and then hope something turned up. Bizarre but I suppose in Zammit's try it kind of worked.

- If we accept the framing of rebuilding/developing a team, there is clear progress over three games. Wales are toothless, as a caveat, however the defensive system starts to look pretty well oiled. Clearly designed to bend but not break, with huge emphasis on contesting the breakdown. The back row were obviously front and centre of that but just about everyone close to a ruck was hitting the ruck hard and trying to get hands on the ball. We won tonnes of turnovers and a few pens, but it also completely gummed up Welsh ball every time they attacked, meaning Wales then tried to hit a well formed defensive set and ended up either losing the ball or kicking it away. England's workrate in defence was pretty phenomenal and the whole thing seems joined up in a way it absolutely was not against Scotland.

- Less well oiled was the attack, albeit you can start to see Evans' mark on it. The team seems caught between a dynamic attacking philosophy that Evans embodies, the percentages rugby of Borthwick which dictates that slow ball goes to the boot, and the Sinfield philosophy that attack is simply defence by other means. This meant we hesitated at a few key points where other sides would have broken through and quite possibly scored. You can see everyone not quite sure whether to run an attacking line or get in position to chase a kick, making the whole thing a little tentative. With that said, the Watson try was an excellent team try involving a well designed play excellently executed by quite a wide cast of characters, and represents the best strike move we've run since the win over the Boks in November '21.

This clash between kicking and running means that whereas in defence we were wonderfully cohesive and coordinated, in attack often going forward meant people were isolated and either lost the ball, conceded a penalty or it became a mess. A few nascent opportunities got shut down in positions where Ireland, France and Scotland would have at least got within 5 metres of the line in the subsequent phases.
This split-second decision making attacking style does not suit a process and system fly half like Farrell, and the answer of who runs this sort of game best is pretty obvious - George Ford. It was noticeable that Faz was at his best in attack working in conjunction with Malins, who obviously train together all the time.

- Our tactical kicking was very good, certainly not faultless (both Faz and JVP stuck one out on the full, Slade and Faz kicked away an overlap each) but it left us playing the game we wanted to in the areas of the pitch we needed to. One of the reasons it wasn't the most exciting game ever played is because we saw clearly we were going to win the kicking battle hands down. Steward took everything, every kick was returned with interest and 1/2p/Zammit etc were on the back foot, smashed straight after taking the ball and unable to generate a reply. Not Baabaas stuff but ten minutes could go by without Wales even hinting at an opportunity, which away in Cardiff you'd take every day.

- Goal kicking cost us a bonus point IMO. If we'd nailed the penalty to go 18-10 up I think we'd have then moved through the gears. As it was we played it safe to close out Borthwick's first "proper" win. Italy deserve better than that perspective but it 100% will have been preying on all their minds that lose yesterday and we're staring down the barrel of a 1 win tournament, the decision to stick to winning the tactical kicking battle was understandable.

- Our discipline is night and day to Eddie's era, I noticed the silly one in our own half for three points as the only egregious pen. Makes a huge difference

- Compete at lineouts! When Maro did go up the Welsh lineout disintegrated, at the very least it throws the opposition and you make a barely discernible gain at a maul from not competing.

Overall, I remain reasonably satisfied. The defensive system is clicking, and hopefully another fortnight of drilling it will have it ready for the ferocious challenge France will pose to it. The attack shows promise but is the wrong system for the 10 we have, either change the system or change the 10. Given his goal kicking post-ankle injuries I'd opt for the latter sadly, if we're going to compete in the final two games we have to kick everything, and with the world cup in mind it will likely light a fairly serious fire under his arse.
Bar making Faz captain, Borthwick is nailing the selection calls, Watson another example. I hope he has the courage to stick with Ludlam/Willis/Dombrandt as it is starting to work superbly.

Great post.

I’d add one thing- the last 30 seconds, where we at least tried to run it, was nice to see. Not like where we kicked it out on Italy. Granted there was a BP on offer this time, but I was pleasantly surprised when it ended up in arundell’s hands.

[JM2K6]

Yup discipline is far improved.

Toga - Jones was really bad for the first half of his first season with Quins. He didn't really start to come good until he had a stint at 15, then he stopped with the howlers and started showing what he could do.

[Slick]

Plenty of evidence that France are very touchable in the three games so far, though we’ll have to put a lot more pace into the game than we have so far.

Any idea if we made any effort to keep Huw Jones? One of the more underrated players put there IMO

He has had a very interesting rugby background but although he would qualify through England by residency I don't think he ever considered it. Born in Edinburgh then went to Millfield. He wasn't considered a very good player at school and after finishing went out to South Africa in his gap year where he started playing local rugby then just seemingly shot up the ladder and 3 years later scored 2 tries and won MoM for Western Province as they won the Currie Cup.

Apparently he has always considered himself Scottish and the reason the SRU picked up on him was because he insisted on a Saltire next to his name on teamsheets while in SA, and it was seen by someone watching a recording of one of his games.

[Paddington Bear]

Plenty of evidence that France are very touchable in the three games so far, though we’ll have to put a lot more pace into the game than we have so far.

Any idea if we made any effort to keep Huw Jones? One of the more underrated players put there IMO

He has had a very interesting rugby background but although he would qualify through England by residency I don't think he ever considered it. Born in Edinburgh then went to Millfield. He wasn't considered a very good player at school and after finishing went out to South Africa in his gap year where he started playing local rugby then just seemingly shot up the ladder and 3 years later scored 2 tries and won MoM for Western Province as they won the Currie Cup.

Apparently he has always considered himself Scottish and the reason the SRU picked up on him was because he insisted on a Saltire next to his name on teamsheets while in SA, and it was seen by someone watching a recording of one of his games.

Thanks - this does all ring a bell

[Ovals]

Just rewatched the game. Some thoughts:
- What was Wales' gameplan? Just constant kicking to Steward and then hope something turned up. Bizarre but I suppose in Zammit's try it kind of worked.

- If we accept the framing of rebuilding/developing a team, there is clear progress over three games. Wales are toothless, as a caveat, however the defensive system starts to look pretty well oiled. Clearly designed to bend but not break, with huge emphasis on contesting the breakdown. The back row were obviously front and centre of that but just about everyone close to a ruck was hitting the ruck hard and trying to get hands on the ball. We won tonnes of turnovers and a few pens, but it also completely gummed up Welsh ball every time they attacked, meaning Wales then tried to hit a well formed defensive set and ended up either losing the ball or kicking it away. England's workrate in defence was pretty phenomenal and the whole thing seems joined up in a way it absolutely was not against Scotland.

- Less well oiled was the attack, albeit you can start to see Evans' mark on it. The team seems caught between a dynamic attacking philosophy that Evans embodies, the percentages rugby of Borthwick which dictates that slow ball goes to the boot, and the Sinfield philosophy that attack is simply defence by other means. This meant we hesitated at a few key points where other sides would have broken through and quite possibly scored. You can see everyone not quite sure whether to run an attacking line or get in position to chase a kick, making the whole thing a little tentative. With that said, the Watson try was an excellent team try involving a well designed play excellently executed by quite a wide cast of characters, and represents the best strike move we've run since the win over the Boks in November '21.

This clash between kicking and running means that whereas in defence we were wonderfully cohesive and coordinated, in attack often going forward meant people were isolated and either lost the ball, conceded a penalty or it became a mess. A few nascent opportunities got shut down in positions where Ireland, France and Scotland would have at least got within 5 metres of the line in the subsequent phases.
This split-second decision making attacking style does not suit a process and system fly half like Farrell, and the answer of who runs this sort of game best is pretty obvious - George Ford. It was noticeable that Faz was at his best in attack working in conjunction with Malins, who obviously train together all the time.

- Our tactical kicking was very good, certainly not faultless (both Faz and JVP stuck one out on the full, Slade and Faz kicked away an overlap each) but it left us playing the game we wanted to in the areas of the pitch we needed to. One of the reasons it wasn't the most exciting game ever played is because we saw clearly we were going to win the kicking battle hands down. Steward took everything, every kick was returned with interest and 1/2p/Zammit etc were on the back foot, smashed straight after taking the ball and unable to generate a reply. Not Baabaas stuff but ten minutes could go by without Wales even hinting at an opportunity, which away in Cardiff you'd take every day.

- Goal kicking cost us a bonus point IMO. If we'd nailed the penalty to go 18-10 up I think we'd have then moved through the gears. As it was we played it safe to close out Borthwick's first "proper" win. Italy deserve better than that perspective but it 100% will have been preying on all their minds that lose yesterday and we're staring down the barrel of a 1 win tournament, the decision to stick to winning the tactical kicking battle was understandable.

- Our discipline is night and day to Eddie's era, I noticed the silly one in our own half for three points as the only egregious pen. Makes a huge difference

- Compete at lineouts! When Maro did go up the Welsh lineout disintegrated, at the very least it throws the opposition and you make a barely discernible gain at a maul from not competing.

Overall, I remain reasonably satisfied. The defensive system is clicking, and hopefully another fortnight of drilling it will have it ready for the ferocious challenge France will pose to it. The attack shows promise but is the wrong system for the 10 we have, either change the system or change the 10. Given his goal kicking post-ankle injuries I'd opt for the latter sadly, if we're going to compete in the final two games we have to kick everything, and with the world cup in mind it will likely light a fairly serious fire under his arse.
Bar making Faz captain, Borthwick is nailing the selection calls, Watson another example. I hope he has the courage to stick with Ludlam/Willis/Dombrandt as it is starting to work superbly.

Yep - we're only 3 games in and there's definite signs of improvement. The 'newish' faces of Malins, Lawrence, Chessum, Willis, Dombrandt and Ludlam have all making more impact with each game. The Backrow, especially, looks class and well balanced- who knew that playing players in their regular positions could be so effective !!

Whilst I'm no fan of Farrell and think he's a bit of an impdiment, I think we need to stick with the backline combinations as starters and give them as many games as poss, to develop better undertsandings. Given that, we also need to see, fairly soon, what Smith/Mitchell/Arundell can add in the last 1/4, without Farrell in the line.

Still not convinced that Cole and Mako are what we need as bench options - they are just too slow and will keep getting shown up against the quicker side like France and Ireland.

Long way to go, but heading in the right direction. A month ago I though twe had absolutely no chance against France and was dreading the game - now, whilst defnitely still underdogs, I think could make life much harder for them.

[Margin__Walker]

Not entirely surprising, but the word is that Smith being sent back to Quins for the weekend, with Ford being retained in his place.

[sockwithaticket]

Not entirely surprising, but the word is that Smith being sent back to Quins for the weekend, with Ford being retained in his place.

Yeah, I suspect he's being shuffled out, but even if not he definitely needs a game having had a grand total of <10 minutes over the last few weeks.

[Margin__Walker]

Not entirely surprising, but the word is that Smith being sent back to Quins for the weekend, with Ford being retained in his place.

Yeah, I suspect he's being shuffled out, but even if not he definitely needs a game having had a grand total of <10 minutes over the last few weeks.

Playing at Twickenham too ironically.

[JM2K6]

It's only right that he carries the can for England's failings.

[Paddington Bear]

It makes sense, Ford is a much better fit for what Borthwick is trying to achieve than Smith.