2025 6N thread

[Paddington Bear]

It'll finish up:
France
Ireland
Scotland
England
Italy
Wales

My feeling too. Only variable I can see is if Italy are able to reproduce and/or better their performances from last year, when they beat Wales and Scotland and were denied victory against France by a questionable refereeing decision.

I'll always be optimistic about England, but everything quoted is very realistic, we're getting closer and closer to Italy's first victory over England, could easily be this time.

It’s a matter of time until we do and there’s no disgrace to it anymore. They won two and should have won a third last year.

[Raggs]

My feeling too. Only variable I can see is if Italy are able to reproduce and/or better their performances from last year, when they beat Wales and Scotland and were denied victory against France by a questionable refereeing decision.

I'll always be optimistic about England, but everything quoted is very realistic, we're getting closer and closer to Italy's first victory over England, could easily be this time.

It’s a matter of time until we do and there’s no disgrace to it anymore. They won two and should have won a third last year.

Yep, given their recent results, it's really not going to be any sort of a shock if they beat us now, well earned and expected.

[Paddington Bear]

I'll always be optimistic about England, but everything quoted is very realistic, we're getting closer and closer to Italy's first victory over England, could easily be this time.

It’s a matter of time until we do and there’s no disgrace to it anymore. They won two and should have won a third last year.

Yep, given their recent results, it's really not going to be any sort of a shock if they beat us now, well earned and expected.

They were what 10 points up against us last year? It’s a mental thing as much as anything now. It’s why our schedule is so scary, it could theoretically go very right but equally it could unravel very fast

[Biffer]

Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

We're not counting the one he has against Ireland or the four against France then? Okay. Another two against Argentina, and one against Australia, together with the six vs England (yes, we all like to laugh at England, but their ranking is pretty close to Scotland). Granted no tries against SA or NZ (don't think he's ever played against them?). But not bad against the top 8 ranked nations, would you agree?

Maybe check some facts next time.

Lowe has one v New Zealand, 1 v France. Apart from that none of his tries count according to Fester. VdM has one v Ireland, three v France , one v Aus and two v the RGs

[Tichtheid]

You get to play a proper winger so.

Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

Oh but you are, or you wouldn't have bothered with your factually incorrect reply.

Yer man Farrell will likely select Duhan on the wing for the Lions as did Gatland before him. I think we can say he's a proper winger.

[Slick]

Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

Weird argument to be getting into Fester

I did warn you

[Uncle fester]

Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

Oh but you are, or you wouldn't have bothered with your factually incorrect reply.

Yer man Farrell will likely select Duhan on the wing for the Lions as did Gatland before him. I think we can say he's a proper winger.

I remember at the time commenting that while I wasn't a huge fan of VDM, if you were going to pick him, you needed to be putting the ball in his hands but instead Gatland picked him in a game plan that saw the ball in the air the whole time.

So yeah, he's scored one try against Ireland in how many games? He's a highlights reel player that better teams can limit easily.

[Uncle fester]

Duhan - 44 games for Scotland, 30 tries

James Lowe - 36 games for Ireland, 16 tries

Mack Hansen - 25 games for Ireland, 12 tries

Ireland are far more successful than Scotland

vdM is a proper winger alright

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

We're not counting the one he has against Ireland or the four against France then? Okay. Another two against Argentina, and one against Australia, together with the six vs England (yes, we all like to laugh at England, but their ranking is pretty close to Scotland). Granted no tries against SA or NZ (don't think he's ever played against them?). But not bad against the top 8 ranked nations, would you agree?

Maybe check some facts next time.

Last autumn against South Africa
0 tries

2023 rwc v south africa
0 tries

2021 November v south africa
0 tries

Maybe it's you who needs to check some facts?

[inactionman]

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

Oh but you are, or you wouldn't have bothered with your factually incorrect reply.

Yer man Farrell will likely select Duhan on the wing for the Lions as did Gatland before him. I think we can say he's a proper winger.

I remember at the time commenting that while I wasn't a huge fan of VDM, if you were going to pick him, you needed to be putting the ball in his hands but instead Gatland picked him in a game plan that saw the ball in the air the whole time.

So yeah, he's scored one try against Ireland in how many games? He's a highlights reel player that better teams can limit easily.

Despite him making a slipshod England look like mugs, there are Scottish wings (even Edinburgh wings - stand up Darcy Graham) who I think are more natural rugby players, are more intuitive, and who show more complete sets of skills.

He's in no way a poor player, but I agree that he does need someone else to do a lot of directing and creating his opportunities. He's pretty bloody good at finishing them though, which is what his record attests (again, with England buffing his numbers up) and which is nine tenths of what you want in a winger.

I'd still rather watch Darcy Graham though.

[Biffer]

He's good at getting tries against Georgia, England and Fiji yes.
Notable lack of tries against teams that matter.

Not interested in your whataboutism.

We're not counting the one he has against Ireland or the four against France then? Okay. Another two against Argentina, and one against Australia, together with the six vs England (yes, we all like to laugh at England, but their ranking is pretty close to Scotland). Granted no tries against SA or NZ (don't think he's ever played against them?). But not bad against the top 8 ranked nations, would you agree?

Maybe check some facts next time.

Last autumn against South Africa
0 tries

2023 rwc
0 tries

2021 November
0 tries

Maybe it's you who needs to check some facts?

Well, a fact would be VdM scoring in the RWC 2023 game v Tonga. So you're just talking out of your arse.

Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2024 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2022 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2021 - 0

Van der Merwe scored more tries than Lowe and Hansen added together last year.

[Uncle fester]

We're not counting the one he has against Ireland or the four against France then? Okay. Another two against Argentina, and one against Australia, together with the six vs England (yes, we all like to laugh at England, but their ranking is pretty close to Scotland). Granted no tries against SA or NZ (don't think he's ever played against them?). But not bad against the top 8 ranked nations, would you agree?

Maybe check some facts next time.

Last autumn against South Africa
0 tries

2023 rwc
0 tries

2021 November
0 tries

Maybe it's you who needs to check some facts?

Well, a fact would be VdM scoring in the RWC 2023 game v Tonga. So you're just talking out of your arse.

Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2024 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2022 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2021 - 0

Van der Merwe scored more tries than Lowe and Hansen added together last year.

I was referring to games against South Africa when the previous poster wondered if VDM had ever played against them with Scotland. Post edited to clarify.
Also 3 lions tests against SA.
0 tries

I don't get the urge to compare him with Hansen and Lowe as a debating tactic. I certainly wouldn't be picking them on a world xv. If we had better players, we'd pick them. If they were better, they'd have played with their country of birth, a bit like VDM.

Poster up further points out that Graham is a better rugby player and that shows at elite test level.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Last autumn against South Africa
0 tries

2023 rwc
0 tries

2021 November
0 tries

Maybe it's you who needs to check some facts?

Well, a fact would be VdM scoring in the RWC 2023 game v Tonga. So you're just talking out of your arse.

Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2024 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2022 - 0
Tries scored by James Lowe in Autumn Internationals 2021 - 0

Van der Merwe scored more tries than Lowe and Hansen added together last year.

I was referring to games against South Africa when the previous poster wondered if VDM had ever played against them with Scotland. Post edited to clarify.
Also 3 lions tests against SA.
0 tries

I don't get the urge to compare him with Hansen and Lowe as a debating tactic. I certainly wouldn't be picking them on a world xv. If we had better players, we'd pick them. If they were better, they'd have played with their country of birth, a bit like VDM.

Poster up further points out that Graham is a better rugby player and that shows at elite test level.

I was referring to NZ. Don't think he's played against them. Other than that, all the facts were checked. But thanks for your feedback.

[fishfoodie]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that Faz isn't going to be selecting & deciding on the tactics for this years 6N; it'll be Easterbunnies choices !

Now some people may say that, well of course Faz will still be making the decisions in the background, but that wouldn't be my reading of his character; for me he'll chat with EB & discuss things, but then he'll delegate the real decisions to the man on the ground.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out !

[Enzedder]

Shall we have a little competition - Just pick winning side and margin. Bonus -05 for correct guess.

Lowest score wins

Keen?

I'll start

France Vs Wales - France by 21
Scotland Vs Italy - Scotland by 15
Ireland Vs England - Ireland by 15

[Biffer]

Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

[Guy Smiley]

Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

https://www.world.rugby/news/927370/sim ... ns-in-2024

Key principles

The on-field process remains the same: Referees can still give a straight red card and the ‘Bunker’ can be called upon for matters that meet the yellow card threshold, reflecting a commitment to ensuring the right outcome and deterring foul play.
A red card still means a red card: This means that after 20 minutes, the offending team will be able to replace the red-carded player with one of their available replacements, leading to more jeopardy and a better contest on the day. The punishment is focused on the offending player, not the game.
Bans will mean what they say: Players sent off for dangerous foul play will be banned for longer via an automatic sanctioning process (no hearing). There will be no mitigation applied without an appeal.
Welfare remains non-negotiable: While tackle technique has shifted significantly given both welfare and performance dynamics, the off-field sanction process will continue to act as a strong deterrent to players, while education on tackle technique as a performance enabler will be stepped up.

[Simian]

Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

I don’t like it either. I could ‘get it’ if it made refs less reluctant to issue red cards, but I haven’t seen much to suggest that’s the case.

[Biffer]

Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

https://www.world.rugby/news/927370/sim ... ns-in-2024

Key principles

The on-field process remains the same: Referees can still give a straight red card and the ‘Bunker’ can be called upon for matters that meet the yellow card threshold, reflecting a commitment to ensuring the right outcome and deterring foul play.
A red card still means a red card: This means that after 20 minutes, the offending team will be able to replace the red-carded player with one of their available replacements, leading to more jeopardy and a better contest on the day. The punishment is focused on the offending player, not the game.
Bans will mean what they say: Players sent off for dangerous foul play will be banned for longer via an automatic sanctioning process (no hearing). There will be no mitigation applied without an appeal.
Welfare remains non-negotiable: While tackle technique has shifted significantly given both welfare and performance dynamics, the off-field sanction process will continue to act as a strong deterrent to players, while education on tackle technique as a performance enabler will be stepped up.

Yeah, I understand how it works. I just don't like it.

[inactionman]

Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

https://www.world.rugby/news/927370/sim ... ns-in-2024

Key principles

The on-field process remains the same: Referees can still give a straight red card and the ‘Bunker’ can be called upon for matters that meet the yellow card threshold, reflecting a commitment to ensuring the right outcome and deterring foul play.
A red card still means a red card: This means that after 20 minutes, the offending team will be able to replace the red-carded player with one of their available replacements, leading to more jeopardy and a better contest on the day. The punishment is focused on the offending player, not the game.
Bans will mean what they say: Players sent off for dangerous foul play will be banned for longer via an automatic sanctioning process (no hearing). There will be no mitigation applied without an appeal.
Welfare remains non-negotiable: While tackle technique has shifted significantly given both welfare and performance dynamics, the off-field sanction process will continue to act as a strong deterrent to players, while education on tackle technique as a performance enabler will be stepped up.

I quite like the bolded bit.

Make the sanctions automatic, and make it the responsibility of the sanctioned player to argue why they deserve any mitigation.

We still need some way of appealing, for example the Steward red card nonsense vs Ireland, but we shouldn't let players off for dangerous play because they said the right things in the panel.

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Six Nations to use twenty minute red cards.

I really don't like this.

https://www.world.rugby/news/927370/sim ... ns-in-2024

Key principles

The on-field process remains the same: Referees can still give a straight red card and the ‘Bunker’ can be called upon for matters that meet the yellow card threshold, reflecting a commitment to ensuring the right outcome and deterring foul play.
A red card still means a red card: This means that after 20 minutes, the offending team will be able to replace the red-carded player with one of their available replacements, leading to more jeopardy and a better contest on the day. The punishment is focused on the offending player, not the game.
Bans will mean what they say: Players sent off for dangerous foul play will be banned for longer via an automatic sanctioning process (no hearing). There will be no mitigation applied without an appeal.
Welfare remains non-negotiable: While tackle technique has shifted significantly given both welfare and performance dynamics, the off-field sanction process will continue to act as a strong deterrent to players, while education on tackle technique as a performance enabler will be stepped up.

I quite like the bolded bit.

Make the sanctions automatic, and make it the responsibility of the sanctioned player to argue why they deserve any mitigation.

We still need some way of appealing, for example the Steward red card nonsense vs Ireland, but we shouldn't let players off for dangerous play because they said the right things in the panel.

Definitely the bolded bit, agree with the no automatic mitigation.

Still don't like the 20 minute red card though. I get that they're trying to make it about the player and not ruin the match, but I don't think 20 mins impact to the team is enough.

[Paddington Bear]

20 minute red has a place if there’s still an actual red used for horrendous high shots etc. No one throws punches anymore so it’s pointless pretending that’s what it’s there for

[Tichtheid]

20 minute red has a place if there’s still an actual red used for horrendous high shots etc. No one throws punches anymore so it’s pointless pretending that’s what it’s there for

Yes, that option is still there, but I would wager that it will never be used in a match where the 20 minute card is available. It's a get-out clause after all the clamour about "games being ruined" - utter bollocks of course, there is a fairly simple way to stop games being ruined by cards, just don't fucking tackle in an upright position.

Torque mentioned Aldritt saying to a referee after an incident was let go, "Don't talk to us about player safety anymore".

It's always only been lip service anyway, as long as people watch in their droves (ie bring in advertising, sponsorship and tv money) they don't actually give a flying fuck about player welfare.

[SaintK]

France Vs Wales - France by 27
Scotland Vs Italy - Scotland by 18
Ireland Vs England - Ireland by 12

[Paddington Bear]

20 minute red has a place if there’s still an actual red used for horrendous high shots etc. No one throws punches anymore so it’s pointless pretending that’s what it’s there for

Yes, that option is still there, but I would wager that it will never be used in a match where the 20 minute card is available. It's a get-out clause after all the clamour about "games being ruined" - utter bollocks of course, there is a fairly simple way to stop games being ruined by cards, just don't fucking tackle in an upright position.

Torque mentioned Aldritt saying to a referee after an incident was let go, "Don't talk to us about player safety anymore".

It's always only been lip service anyway, as long as people watch in their droves (ie bring in advertising, sponsorship and tv money) they don't actually give a flying fuck about player welfare.

Agreed. With this said every side is all ‘player safety is paramount’ until one of their players is threatened with being sent off at which point the ref is ruining the contest. None of us are totally immune from this. A red card is such a sea change in a game (hell even penalties are hence why they’re celebrated so hard) you can understand why, it doesn’t make for great sport though

[Biffer]

20 minute red has a place if there’s still an actual red used for horrendous high shots etc. No one throws punches anymore so it’s pointless pretending that’s what it’s there for

Yes, that option is still there, but I would wager that it will never be used in a match where the 20 minute card is available. It's a get-out clause after all the clamour about "games being ruined" - utter bollocks of course, there is a fairly simple way to stop games being ruined by cards, just don't fucking tackle in an upright position.

Torque mentioned Aldritt saying to a referee after an incident was let go, "Don't talk to us about player safety anymore".

It's always only been lip service anyway, as long as people watch in their droves (ie bring in advertising, sponsorship and tv money) they don't actually give a flying fuck about player welfare.

Agreed. With this said every side is all ‘player safety is paramount’ until one of their players is threatened with being sent off at which point the ref is ruining the contest. None of us are totally immune from this. A red card is such a sea change in a game (hell even penalties are hence why they’re celebrated so hard) you can understand why, it doesn’t make for great sport though

We benefited from the 20m red card v SA in November but I still don't like it. We should have gone to 14 and taken the consequences.

[Slick]

France Vs Wales - France by 48
Scotland Vs Italy - Scotland by 14
Ireland Vs England - England by 6

These might be better on a separate thread that Oom sometimes does.

[Biffer]

France v Wales - France by 37
Scotland v Italy - Scotland by 5
Ireland v England - Ireland by 9

[S/Lt_Phillips]

France v Wales - France by 28
Scotland v Italy - Scotland by <7
Ireland v England - Ireland by 9 (being conservative, lack of Farrell coaching a big unknown)

[inactionman]

France v Wales - France by 14
Scotland v Italy - Scotland by 7
Ireland v England - Ireland by 7, and a contentious red card.

[Paddington Bear]

France by 30
England by 5
Italy by 3

Go hard or go home

[Uncle fester]

Do a separate thread for them and I'll dig out the excel file I made before.

I was going to - just wanted to gauge interest.

[SaintK]

Do a separate thread for them and I'll dig out the excel file I made before.

Done!!!!

[PCPhil]

I hope the Excel sheet gets finished this time! I was winning last year and I had a good last round. I was waiting to be crowned. My one moment of absolute triumph in a miserable existence

[Ovals]

I hope the Excel sheet gets finished this time! I was winning last year and I had a good last round. I was waiting to be crowned. My one moment of absolute triumph in a miserable existence

There's one way to be sure it gets finished

[PCPhil]

I hope the Excel sheet gets finished this time! I was winning last year and I had a good last round. I was waiting to be crowned. My one moment of absolute triumph in a miserable existence

There's one way to be sure it gets finished

If it could be shared i would be happy to assist.

[sockwithaticket]

Wales get rid of Alex King and bring back Rob Howley as attack coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 0y50r0w0eo

It's quite funny, but also desperately sad. Almost as if Gatland's conducting an experiment into how shit he make them before the WRU find their bollocks and give him the boot.

[Simian]

Wales get rid of Alex King and bring back Rob Howley as attack coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 0y50r0w0eo

It's quite funny, but also desperately sad. Almost as if Gatland's conducting an experiment into how shit he make them before the WRU find their bollocks and give him the boot.

Wonder what the odds of Howley coming back were?

[sockwithaticket]

Wales get rid of Alex King and bring back Rob Howley as attack coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 0y50r0w0eo

It's quite funny, but also desperately sad. Almost as if Gatland's conducting an experiment into how shit he make them before the WRU find their bollocks and give him the boot.

Wonder what the odds of Howley coming back were?

[S/Lt_Phillips]

Wales get rid of Alex King and bring back Rob Howley as attack coach.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union ... 0y50r0w0eo

It's quite funny, but also desperately sad. Almost as if Gatland's conducting an experiment into how shit he make them before the WRU find their bollocks and give him the boot.

Wonder what the odds of Howley coming back were?

But Gatland said we shouldn't underestimate Wales! Maybe the BBC were having a bit of fun when they quoted that bit.

I actually think Wales won't quite be the soft touch we all expect them to be. Though I won't be disappointed if they lose every game by a record margin, obviously.

[Slick]

Happy 6 Nations week!