The Official English Rugby Thread

[SaintK]

Leon MacDonald and Graham Rowntree apparently on a shortlist of two for Tigers DoR vacancy
https://www.rugbypass.com/news/rumour- ... cester/

[dpedin]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... n-rfu-cvc/

Can't copy the article on my phone, but proposing some significant changes.

Behind paywall
Some interesting ideas in there. Going to struggle to get complete buy-in and agreement from all the different vested interests
https://archive.ph/50IpE

Doing nothing is not an option given Newcastle and Exeter are struggling financially, they need some drastic action before the whole league collapses.

[Deveron Boy]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... n-rfu-cvc/

Can't copy the article on my phone, but proposing some significant changes.

Behind paywall
Some interesting ideas in there. Going to struggle to get complete buy-in and agreement from all the different vested interests
https://archive.ph/50IpE

Doing nothing is not an option given Newcastle and Exeter are struggling financially, they need some drastic action before the whole league collapses.

Nothing in the article about how they are going to increase fan numbers (live and tv) and engagement etc to drive commercial revenues as that’s the fundamental issue here

[duke]

Behind paywall
Some interesting ideas in there. Going to struggle to get complete buy-in and agreement from all the different vested interests
https://archive.ph/50IpE

Doing nothing is not an option given Newcastle and Exeter are struggling financially, they need some drastic action before the whole league collapses.

Nothing in the article about how they are going to increase fan numbers (live and tv) and engagement etc to drive commercial revenues as that’s the fundamental issue here

I will be interested to see how that links with what the Welsh see as the way forward. I reckon 2 Welsh regions, or equivalent, tieing in to the Premiership would be attractive on a number of levels and may be an easier solution than inventing a set of franchises.
CVC may see franchises as their preferred means of monetising their investment in the short term

[Kawazaki]

People seem scared of the word 'franchise' as if it suddenly means an investor could buy Bath or Saracens and then just move it to Kettering, Margate, Grimsby or wherever the hell they like.

That simply won't happen. It really is very rare for it to happen in the NFL as well, and that's where their sport is the most popular in a market with 330m people.

Broadly speaking, none of the current Premiership clubs will find bigger crowds by relocating. London Welsh and Wasps were both historically strong rugby brands but both bombed when they moved.

[Hal Jordan]

The RFU should have done this nigh on 30 years ago instead of the moratorium on professionalism, the stupid old farts. Taken control from day one and used the existing clubs to feed up to franchises like New Zealand did for Super Rugby.

[SaintK]

Christian Wade leaving Glaws and off to Wigan until the end of the year on a short term contract
How odd!!!!

[sockwithaticket]

Christian Wade leaving Glaws and off to Wigan until the end of the year on a short term contract
How odd!!!!

Extremely! Chris Ashton must be breathing a sigh of relief, though. Try scoring record will be his for some time to come.

[Rhubarb & Custard]

The RFU should have done this nigh on 30 years ago instead of the moratorium on professionalism, the stupid old farts. Taken control from day one and used the existing clubs to feed up to franchises like New Zealand did for Super Rugby.

which is fine if one supposes those new entities would have drawn support. but they well might have proved as popular as the regions in Wales

what we need is a level of funding and spending based off that which we can afford, and where that places us in the global rankings isn't such a concern.

[shaggy]

The RFU should have done this nigh on 30 years ago instead of the moratorium on professionalism, the stupid old farts. Taken control from day one and used the existing clubs to feed up to franchises like New Zealand did for Super Rugby.

which is fine if one supposes those new entities would have drawn support. but they well might have proved as popular as the regions in Wales

what we need is a level of funding and spending based off that which we can afford, and where that places us in the global rankings isn't such a concern.

Would the RFU invested the hundreds of millions the club owners have done to upgrade the stadiums?

[Kawazaki]

The RFU should have done this nigh on 30 years ago instead of the moratorium on professionalism, the stupid old farts. Taken control from day one and used the existing clubs to feed up to franchises like New Zealand did for Super Rugby.

which is fine if one supposes those new entities would have drawn support. but they well might have proved as popular as the regions in Wales

what we need is a level of funding and spending based off that which we can afford, and where that places us in the global rankings isn't such a concern.

Would the RFU invested the hundreds of millions the club owners have done to upgrade the stadiums?

Would they fuck.

If the club owners hadn't of stepped in and left the finance to the RFU then English professional rugby union would have never progressed beyond the old divisions system.

The English club's have spent the thick end of a £billion over the last 30 years underwriting a loss-making mechanism that produces players for the RFU to use to fill Twickenham.

It's the biggest con trick in English sport.

[Paddington Bear]

The RFU should have done this nigh on 30 years ago instead of the moratorium on professionalism, the stupid old farts. Taken control from day one and used the existing clubs to feed up to franchises like New Zealand did for Super Rugby.

which is fine if one supposes those new entities would have drawn support. but they well might have proved as popular as the regions in Wales

what we need is a level of funding and spending based off that which we can afford, and where that places us in the global rankings isn't such a concern.

Would the RFU invested the hundreds of millions the club owners have done to upgrade the stadiums?

There’s a poster here (or maybe back in the day on PR?) who feels the old divisional structure had real legs professionally and could have got us to somewhere like the Irish are. Too late now even if he was right and tbh when you look at crowds English club rugby has done pretty well on any metric, Irish provinces don’t have pro football to compete with either.

Getting to 12/14 clubs is the realistic best case - Newcastle need a buyer, Worcester maybe can viably be considered as being on the way back. Don’t think Irish are coming back and Wasps seem addicted to complete pipe dreams - 26,000 in Sevenoaks anyone?

If you’re looking at where there’s viable potential for club rugby to thrive you’re looking at a reasonable sized place, some cash and in the short term a stadium.

Cornish Pirates fail on both population and cash, Ealing is a club ground you can walk up and down the touchline of. Coventry maybe? Beyond that Yorkshire is the glaring omission - Leeds always bombed attendance wise even when they were half decent, Doncaster get pitiful crowds even if they theoretically tick the boxes to come up, maybe York could support a side? No Super League team, a stadium that does host rugby etc etc. Nothing immediate coming through though. Perhaps also someone could take a punt on the south coast, say Bournemouth. Which leaves us with the Welsh with their well documented problems.

Excellent game in front of a healthy crowd at Kingston Park tonight, Connon missed a couple of kicks in the wind from the corner to prevent them from recording a big win. This is a great league and we shouldn’t forget that.

[Torquemada 1420]

Would the RFU invested the hundreds of millions the club owners have done to upgrade the stadiums?

That number seems a reach even if you intended that number in toto across all the clubs. Most of the Prem teams play at old grounds that have been tinkered with (I'm ignoring the peripatetics like Wasps and Lirish who can't have spent a penny) bar Andy Bell spending something like £25m to build the entirety of the AJB from the ground up.

[Paddington Bear]

Would the RFU invested the hundreds of millions the club owners have done to upgrade the stadiums?

That number seems a reach even if you intended that number in toto across all the clubs. Most of the Prem teams play at old grounds that have been tinkered with (I'm ignoring the peripatetics like Wasps and Lirish who can't have spent a penny) bar Andy Bell spending something like £25m to build the entirety of the AJB from the ground up.

Tinkered with underplays it - most of the old grounds are pretty much unrecognisable from 20 years ago. Exceptions if you’re looking at the Crumbie Terrace or the Shed but they’ve been deliberately kept. Bath next up for a near total redevelopment

[ASMO]

Christian Wade leaving Glaws and off to Wigan until the end of the year on a short term contract
How odd!!!!

Probably Glaws didnt offer him the wedge he was expecting, or was being put on a pay to play contract so took the league shilling, not really sure he will thrive there, his defence has never been up to much.

[Torquemada 1420]

Would the RFU invested the hundreds of millions the club owners have done to upgrade the stadiums?

That number seems a reach even if you intended that number in toto across all the clubs. Most of the Prem teams play at old grounds that have been tinkered with (I'm ignoring the peripatetics like Wasps and Lirish who can't have spent a penny) bar Andy Bell spending something like £25m to build the entirety of the AJB from the ground up.

Tinkered with underplays it - most of the old grounds are pretty much unrecognisable from 20 years ago. Exceptions if you’re looking at the Crumbie Terrace or the Shed but they’ve been deliberately kept. Bath next up for a near total redevelopment

Fair enough but those numbers seem highly dubious.

{EDIT} Everton and Luton new stadiums are approx. £50m for brand new build and so if Prem owners really spent that kind of money rather than building new, then they are even more mental and poor businessmen than the woes of the last few years highlighted.

[Torquemada 1420]

Christian Wade leaving Glaws and off to Wigan until the end of the year on a short term contract
How odd!!!!

Probably Glaws didnt offer him the wedge he was expecting, or was being put on a pay to play contract so took the league shilling, not really sure he will thrive there, his defence has never been up to much.

Won't last 5 mins in sumo if he can' defend.

[Paddington Bear]

That number seems a reach even if you intended that number in toto across all the clubs. Most of the Prem teams play at old grounds that have been tinkered with (I'm ignoring the peripatetics like Wasps and Lirish who can't have spent a penny) bar Andy Bell spending something like £25m to build the entirety of the AJB from the ground up.

Tinkered with underplays it - most of the old grounds are pretty much unrecognisable from 20 years ago. Exceptions if you’re looking at the Crumbie Terrace or the Shed but they’ve been deliberately kept. Bath next up for a near total redevelopment

Fair enough but those numbers seem highly dubious.

{EDIT} Everton and Luton new stadiums are approx. £50m for brand new build and so if Prem owners really spent that kind of money rather than building new, then they are even more mental and poor businessmen than the woes of the last few years highlighted.

Can’t vouch for the numbers admittedly, stronger on the principle.

Another cracking game, Sale good value for their lead but Quins offering plenty to suggest it’s far from over

[Simian]

That number seems a reach even if you intended that number in toto across all the clubs. Most of the Prem teams play at old grounds that have been tinkered with (I'm ignoring the peripatetics like Wasps and Lirish who can't have spent a penny) bar Andy Bell spending something like £25m to build the entirety of the AJB from the ground up.

Tinkered with underplays it - most of the old grounds are pretty much unrecognisable from 20 years ago. Exceptions if you’re looking at the Crumbie Terrace or the Shed but they’ve been deliberately kept. Bath next up for a near total redevelopment

Fair enough but those numbers seem highly dubious.

{EDIT} Everton and Luton new stadiums are approx. £50m for brand new build and so if Prem owners really spent that kind of money rather than building new, then they are even more mental and poor businessmen than the woes of the last few years highlighted.

Where did you get the £50M figures for Everton and Luton from? The figures I’ve seen in the press were way way higher than that. BBC reported the total cost for Everton’s new stadium as around £750M.

Edit: here’s a BbC article with the £750M figure in it

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/arti ... 27rjp0emeo

[Torquemada 1420]

Tinkered with underplays it - most of the old grounds are pretty much unrecognisable from 20 years ago. Exceptions if you’re looking at the Crumbie Terrace or the Shed but they’ve been deliberately kept. Bath next up for a near total redevelopment

Fair enough but those numbers seem highly dubious.

{EDIT} Everton and Luton new stadiums are approx. £50m for brand new build and so if Prem owners really spent that kind of money rather than building new, then they are even more mental and poor businessmen than the woes of the last few years highlighted.

Where did you get the £50M figures for Everton and Luton from? The figures I’ve seen in the press were way way higher than that. BBC reported the total cost for Everton’s new stadium as around £750M.

Edit: here’s a BbC article with the £750M figure in it

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/arti ... 27rjp0emeo

Sorry. Typo: missed the zero off. £500m. Although not sure why Luton should be anywhere near the cost of what fraudulent Everton's place is costing.

And hey,
https://footballgroundguide.com/news/ev ... plans.html
Everton lying about spending. Who'd have thought it?

[Torquemada 1420]

Meantime, Quins are like a school girl in a fight with Mike Tyson whenever they have to contend with any physicality.

[Paddington Bear]

Fair enough but those numbers seem highly dubious.

{EDIT} Everton and Luton new stadiums are approx. £50m for brand new build and so if Prem owners really spent that kind of money rather than building new, then they are even more mental and poor businessmen than the woes of the last few years highlighted.

Where did you get the £50M figures for Everton and Luton from? The figures I’ve seen in the press were way way higher than that. BBC reported the total cost for Everton’s new stadium as around £750M.

Edit: here’s a BbC article with the £750M figure in it

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/arti ... 27rjp0emeo

Sorry. Typo: missed the zero off. £500m. Although not sure why Luton should be anywhere near the cost of what fraudulent Everton's place is costing.

And hey,
https://footballgroundguide.com/news/ev ... plans.html
Everton lying about spending. Who'd have thought it?

Would imagine land acquisition costs next to Luton station are pretty significant.


You have to think Quins are done now

[duke]

Commentators’ curse for Seb Atkinson today. Talked up as an England tourist for the Summer and has screwed up pretty much every phase since

[Stranger]

JVP showing why he is ahead pf Randall for England.

[duke]

JVP showing why he is ahead pf Randall for England.

Helps that Brizz appear to be determined to shoot themselves in both feet - I could be proved wrong but they seem to believe that the miracle offload will do all the work

[sockwithaticket]

Haven't seen much of Bristol so far this season, I can only assume being this sloppy is atypical for them given their league position.

[ASMO]

Ben Youngs announces retirement at the end of the Season, should have gone a few years ago to be honest

[SaintK]

Ben Youngs announces retirement at the end of the Season, should have gone a few years ago to be honest

Yeah, probably!!
127 caps and 332 Tigers appearances in 18 years of pro rugby with 4 6 Nations Championships and 5 Premiership titles is not to be sneezed at mind you.

[Tichtheid]

Ben Youngs announces retirement at the end of the Season, should have gone a few years ago to be honest

Yeah, probably!!
127 caps and 332 Tigers appearances in 18 years of pro rugby with 4 6 Nations Championships and 5 Premiership titles is not to be sneezed at mind you.

Two Lions test caps, plus a runner's up medal and third place at the World Cup - I think that can be called a successful career, all in all.

[Kawazaki]

Ben 'bottleneck' Youngs.

Shamefully, the most capped England rugby player of all time and the living embodiment of why England have been so utterly hopeless for the last 22 years.

Mediocrity personified. If he was any other nationality, he wouldn't have reached more than 30 caps for any of them and likely none for most of them.

[SaintK]

Ben 'bottleneck' Youngs.

Shamefully, the most capped England rugby player of all time and the living embodiment of why England have been so utterly hopeless for the last 22 years.

Mediocrity personified. If he was any other nationality, he wouldn't have reached more than 30 caps for any of them and likely none for most of them.

Very harsh
Thought he was excellent for the first half of his career

[Kawazaki]

Ben 'bottleneck' Youngs.

Shamefully, the most capped England rugby player of all time and the living embodiment of why England have been so utterly hopeless for the last 22 years.

Mediocrity personified. If he was any other nationality, he wouldn't have reached more than 30 caps for any of them and likely none for most of them.

Very harsh
Thought he was excellent for the first half of his career

Look at the highest capped players for other countries

New Zealand - McCaw
South Africa - Etzebeth
Italy - Parisse

These are top players.

Don't get me started on Dan Cole either.

[SaintK]

Ben 'bottleneck' Youngs.

Shamefully, the most capped England rugby player of all time and the living embodiment of why England have been so utterly hopeless for the last 22 years.

Mediocrity personified. If he was any other nationality, he wouldn't have reached more than 30 caps for any of them and likely none for most of them.

Very harsh
Thought he was excellent for the first half of his career

Look at the highest capped players for other countries

New Zealand - McCaw
South Africa - Etzebeth
Italy - Parisse

These are top players.

Don't get me started on Dan Cole either.

Quite

[Paddington Bear]

Ben 'bottleneck' Youngs.

Shamefully, the most capped England rugby player of all time and the living embodiment of why England have been so utterly hopeless for the last 22 years.

Mediocrity personified. If he was any other nationality, he wouldn't have reached more than 30 caps for any of them and likely none for most of them.

Very harsh
Thought he was excellent for the first half of his career

You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

50-60 excellent caps, every cap beyond 75 or so was completely inexplicable. Can’t blame him for wanting to represent his country, can blame Eddie for picking him.

Some great memories and ultimately a very decent man.

[Hal Jordan]

Rejoice! RFU cost cutting measures will mean that England's kit will be provided by Castore!

[Rhubarb & Custard]

Rejoice! RFU cost cutting measures will mean that England's kit will be provided by Castore!

Castore have been plugging untapped markets for selling immature sports into as they go team to team across sports that aren't F1 or football. And the RFU love to hear it, but this are the same bunch who were convinced the internet meant selling viewing rights was going to explode upwards because of 'untapped markets'

[SaintK]

Sale 22 7 up at half time against Sarries
Really out muscling them in the tackle and loose
Superb individual try from his own line from Reed and Ford controlling things beautifully apart from a couple of dodgy kicks
Sarries really need to up their game

[Paddington Bear]

Sale’s defence totally shut us down there and their power game was too much. A tough watch

[Brazil]

Nice for the good guys to get such a comprehensive win, shame the total incompetence of that preening hack Ridley cost us the bonus point, but onwards and upwards.

[SaintK]

Sale’s defence totally shut us down there and their power game was too much. A tough watch

Sale will be very disappointed not to have got the bonus point