The Brexit Thread

[Rhubarb & Custard]

And now it appears that the money Caroline Lucas ((C) Farage) has promised to the big green shakeup has largely already been announced, with only £3bn actually being new funds. Stop me if you've heard this before.

Every executive repeats this nonsense of trying announce known spend as new money. They know most people don't follow news/politics so they're happy to accept pissing off those who are nauses in the hope of the headline reaching a wider audience when the wider audience will never know the details.

So really the solution is an engaged electorate, and given they're busing watching reality TV or playing with their phones we're going to carry on getting the same guff announced by executives the world over

[Longshanks]

Interesting article in the Torygraph yesterday comparing a no deal with a Canada deal
The estimate was that the average person would be 0.8% worse off with no deal over 10 years, so about £200 quid a year. I know we'd all prefer to have 200 hundred quid in our pockets than not, especially if we're a bit short of cash, but Canada is hardly "Cake".

This Canada deal?

https://www.ft.com/content/c59ae5ba-c38 ... c071f94f27

Justin Trudeau, Canada’s prime minister, has claimed that Britain is struggling to conclude a trade deal with his country before the Brexit transition ends on January 1 because it does not have “the bandwidth”.

Mr Trudeau said Canada was highly experienced at striking trade deals and was ready to conclude an agreement with the UK, rolling over the terms of the existing EU-Canada deal when the transition period ends.

“The UK hasn’t had to negotiate trade deals in the past few decades,” Mr Trudeau told the Financial Times. “So there is an issue of not really having the bandwidth within government to move forward on this.”

Liz Truss, Britain’s international trade secretary, denies that Britain does not have enough capacity or trade negotiators to do a deal, and her allies say she hopes to get an agreement across the line by January 1.

Canada UK deal any day now
That should make you happy IH
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ng-eu-deal

[Openside]

Covid might win
Talks suspended
EU member of team positive

Makes a nice change

[ASMO]

Interesting article in the Torygraph yesterday comparing a no deal with a Canada deal
The estimate was that the average person would be 0.8% worse off with no deal over 10 years, so about £200 quid a year. I know we'd all prefer to have 200 hundred quid in our pockets than not, especially if we're a bit short of cash, but Canada is hardly "Cake".

This Canada deal?

https://www.ft.com/content/c59ae5ba-c38 ... c071f94f27

Justin Trudeau, Canada’s prime minister, has claimed that Britain is struggling to conclude a trade deal with his country before the Brexit transition ends on January 1 because it does not have “the bandwidth”.

Mr Trudeau said Canada was highly experienced at striking trade deals and was ready to conclude an agreement with the UK, rolling over the terms of the existing EU-Canada deal when the transition period ends.

“The UK hasn’t had to negotiate trade deals in the past few decades,” Mr Trudeau told the Financial Times. “So there is an issue of not really having the bandwidth within government to move forward on this.”

Liz Truss, Britain’s international trade secretary, denies that Britain does not have enough capacity or trade negotiators to do a deal, and her allies say she hopes to get an agreement across the line by January 1.

Canada UK deal any day now
That should make you happy IH
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ng-eu-deal

Ermm you mean the exact same deal that is in place now, so basically nothing that adds any benefit over and above what is there now. No doubt the Brexshitters will be claiming it is a massive victory and proof positive that their promises were right.

[Insane_Homer]

Canada were ready, just needed Lizzy to fold on our pie in the sky demands, so we get the same deal we had before done. Which of course, they did. Victory! Hazzar!

[fishfoodie]

This Canada deal?

https://www.ft.com/content/c59ae5ba-c38 ... c071f94f27

Canada UK deal any day now
That should make you happy IH
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ng-eu-deal

Ermm you mean the exact same deal that is in place now, so basically nothing that adds any benefit over and above what is there now. No doubt the Brexshitters will be claiming it is a massive victory and proof positive that their promises were right.

Which assumes that the deal, as promoted by the Tories, is actually the same.

When the Japan deal got some scrutiny; it wasn't the great deal that Truss claimed it was !

[Bimbowomxn]

When the Japan deal got some scrutiny; it wasn't the great deal that Truss claimed it was !
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It was roundly judged as equal to or even better than the EU / Japan deal.

[Longshanks]

Canada UK deal any day now
That should make you happy IH
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ng-eu-deal

Ermm you mean the exact same deal that is in place now, so basically nothing that adds any benefit over and above what is there now. No doubt the Brexshitters will be claiming it is a massive victory and proof positive that their promises were right.

Which assumes that the deal, as promoted by the Tories, is actually the same.

When the Japan deal got some scrutiny; it wasn't the great deal that Truss claimed it was !

It's no worse than we already had and a new deal will be discussed over the next 2 years
I'm not defending the government here, but IH was hoping that there would be no deal with Canada.
Just to update him.

[tabascoboy]

When the Japan deal got some scrutiny; it wasn't the great deal that Truss claimed it was !

But, but, but; cheese sales!

[fishfoodie]

Ermm you mean the exact same deal that is in place now, so basically nothing that adds any benefit over and above what is there now. No doubt the Brexshitters will be claiming it is a massive victory and proof positive that their promises were right.

Which assumes that the deal, as promoted by the Tories, is actually the same.

When the Japan deal got some scrutiny; it wasn't the great deal that Truss claimed it was !

It's no worse than we already had and a new deal will be discussed over the next 2 years
I'm not defending the government here, but IH was hoping that there would be no deal with Canada.
Just to update him.

It is for the main area of Japanese interest; Cars !

U.K. will maintain preferential tariffs for industrial products manufactured with components made in the European Union in a win for Japanese automakers, Nikkei has learned.

The two sides agreed to broaden rules-of-origin language to treat EU-sourced parts as the same as those made in the U.K. or Japan. This will apply to all finished industrial goods, including automobiles.

The provision is a boon to Japanese automakers that use EU-made engines and other components. Without it, such car companies would have faced higher tariffs, since their autos would not be recognized as "made in Japan." The Japanese manufacturing sector had been closely monitoring discussions.

....


Under the trade accord, Japan will benefit in other ways from the rules-of-origin provision. For one, a portion of automotive components, such as motors and air-conditioning systems, will need to originate only 50% of the content from the two countries to qualify for preferential tariffs. The ratio is lower than the 55% threshold in place for the Japan-EU trade deal.

This opens up market access to the U.K. for products assembled in Japan containing material heavily sourced from such places as Southeast Asia. In addition, Japan won the immediate withdrawal of tariffs for train cars and their components, as well as for such industrial goods as electronic control panels for electric vehicles.

[Longshanks]

Which assumes that the deal, as promoted by the Tories, is actually the same.

When the Japan deal got some scrutiny; it wasn't the great deal that Truss claimed it was !

It's no worse than we already had and a new deal will be discussed over the next 2 years
I'm not defending the government here, but IH was hoping that there would be no deal with Canada.
Just to update him.

It is for the main area of Japanese interest; Cars !

U.K. will maintain preferential tariffs for industrial products manufactured with components made in the European Union in a win for Japanese automakers, Nikkei has learned.

The two sides agreed to broaden rules-of-origin language to treat EU-sourced parts as the same as those made in the U.K. or Japan. This will apply to all finished industrial goods, including automobiles.

The provision is a boon to Japanese automakers that use EU-made engines and other components. Without it, such car companies would have faced higher tariffs, since their autos would not be recognized as "made in Japan." The Japanese manufacturing sector had been closely monitoring discussions.

....


Under the trade accord, Japan will benefit in other ways from the rules-of-origin provision. For one, a portion of automotive components, such as motors and air-conditioning systems, will need to originate only 50% of the content from the two countries to qualify for preferential tariffs. The ratio is lower than the 55% threshold in place for the Japan-EU trade deal.

This opens up market access to the U.K. for products assembled in Japan containing material heavily sourced from such places as Southeast Asia. In addition, Japan won the immediate withdrawal of tariffs for train cars and their components, as well as for such industrial goods as electronic control panels for electric vehicles.

What has that got to do with the deal with Canada?

[Slick]

Covid might win
Talks suspended
EU member of team positive

Makes a nice change

Thanks, I felt that deserved better

[Insane_Homer]

[Bimbowomxn]

For one, a portion of automotive components, such as motors and air-conditioning systems, will need to originate only 50% of the content from the two countries to qualify for preferential tariffs. The ratio is lower than the 55% threshold in place for the Japan-EU trade deal.

It also benefits the UK assembly manufacturing market. Especially the lux brands.

[fishfoodie]

It's no worse than we already had and a new deal will be discussed over the next 2 years
I'm not defending the government here, but IH was hoping that there would be no deal with Canada.
Just to update him.

It is for the main area of Japanese interest; Cars !

U.K. will maintain preferential tariffs for industrial products manufactured with components made in the European Union in a win for Japanese automakers, Nikkei has learned.

The two sides agreed to broaden rules-of-origin language to treat EU-sourced parts as the same as those made in the U.K. or Japan. This will apply to all finished industrial goods, including automobiles.

The provision is a boon to Japanese automakers that use EU-made engines and other components. Without it, such car companies would have faced higher tariffs, since their autos would not be recognized as "made in Japan." The Japanese manufacturing sector had been closely monitoring discussions.

....


Under the trade accord, Japan will benefit in other ways from the rules-of-origin provision. For one, a portion of automotive components, such as motors and air-conditioning systems, will need to originate only 50% of the content from the two countries to qualify for preferential tariffs. The ratio is lower than the 55% threshold in place for the Japan-EU trade deal.

This opens up market access to the U.K. for products assembled in Japan containing material heavily sourced from such places as Southeast Asia. In addition, Japan won the immediate withdrawal of tariffs for train cars and their components, as well as for such industrial goods as electronic control panels for electric vehicles.

What has that got to do with the deal with Canada?

Just that the Politicians saying that a deal is the same as the old deal; doesn't mean that it actually is the same; especially when the Politicians have a track record of lying.

Lets wait for the experts to look it over, before opening the Champagne

[Longshanks]

It is for the main area of Japanese interest; Cars !

What has that got to do with the deal with Canada?

Just that the Politicians saying that a deal is the same as the old deal; doesn't mean that it actually is the same; especially when the Politicians have a track record of lying.

Lets wait for the experts to look it over, before opening the Champagne

You seem to misunderstand.
Canada have agreed to continue trading with the UK on the same terms as with they do with the EU. There is nothing to look at as far as I can tell.
In 2 years time both sides hope to have a more ambitious FTA

[fishfoodie]

What has that got to do with the deal with Canada?

Just that the Politicians saying that a deal is the same as the old deal; doesn't mean that it actually is the same; especially when the Politicians have a track record of lying.

Lets wait for the experts to look it over, before opening the Champagne

You seem to misunderstand.
Canada have agreed to continue trading with the UK on the same terms as with they do with the EU. There is nothing to look at as far as I can tell.
In 2 years time both sides hope to have a more ambitious FTA

But they aren't trading on the same terms !

The terms are, broadly the same; but there are differences; & one of them is significant.

Verheul said the "small handful" of issues negotiators were stuck on in the late stages also included converting CETA's market access commitments for 28 countries into reasonable quantities for the U.K. alone. For example, CETA's quota for sensitive farm goods will remain intact for the remaining 27 states to use, so the U.K. and Canada must negotiate their own tariff-free quantities in each direction.

One is not unexpected, but odd.

Steve Verheul, the assistant deputy minister for trade negotiations, told MPs that negotiators had some "challenges" resolving issues related to the temporary entry of business people for business purposes — something that's been an issue between the U.K. and other trading partners too, as it forges its own immigration policy post-Brexit.

& the fucking bizarre obsession with cheese continues.

Forsyth told MPs he did not have a negotiating mandate to offer the U.K. an additional slice of Canada's cheese market, for example, even though the U.K. wanted it.

In the other direction, Canadian grain and livestock farmers are perennially aggressive in negotiating new markets. The U.K., now out from under the EU's protection, is a target.

Boris Johnson's Conservative government, which relies on support from rural constituencies, may have resisted more tariff-free access for things like Canadian beef and pork.

I don't want to beat the topic to death; but it shouldn't be surprising that the UK isn't able to strike trade deals that are, "better", than what they had under the EU. For one; UK hasn't negotiated deals for itself for decades, & it's already been admitted that it doesn't have as many negotiators of stature, as it would like. And second; the EU, & others will always try to include provisions in its trade deals; that if the other Country gives more favorable access to another Country; they will have to extend that access to the EU. So it's very unlikely that anyone will give the UK a better deal, when they know they'll have to extend it to the EU too.

[Longshanks]

FF
I will repeat that I'm only helpibg IH see there is a deal in place with Canada
Any nation leaving the EU after all these years will need time to set up FTAs.
I think they are doing OK considering how narrow the window has been
I still believe we would have been better to remain part of the EU. But if that's what democracy chose, then I have to respect it.
Have good evening mate.

[Hal Jordan]

All this talk of cheese has reminded me that I put "goat's cheese Camembert" on the shopping list and my wife brought back goat's cheese and a Camembert.

And to add insult to injury the Camembert is more crumbly than a very crumbly thing, and I fucking hate cheese that's supposed to be soft but is too immature and so is disgustingly crumbly. And I am going to have to wait a month until the goat's cheese is past its sell by date so that that's not crumbly either.

[Sandstorm]

All this talk of cheese has reminded me that I put "goat's cheese Camembert" on the shopping list and my wife brought back goat's cheese and a Camembert.

And to add insult to injury the Camembert is more crumbly than a very crumbly thing, and I fucking hate cheese that's supposed to be soft but is too immature and so is disgustingly crumbly. And I am going to have to wait a month until the goat's cheese is past its sell by date so that that's not crumbly either.

Camembert smells like semen. Your fridge is going to be minging until Xmas Eve.

[Longshanks]

You sniff semen Sandstorm?

[Sandstorm]

Surely Brexit negotiations are more important than anything else in UK in the next 5 years. We should be paying millions to the best deal makers in the private sector to step in pronto. Retail, banking, motor manufacturing, Bimbot’s warehouse, wherever they are - get ‘em in now!

[fishfoodie]

FF
I will repeat that I'm only helpibg IH see there is a deal in place with Canada
Any nation leaving the EU after all these years will need time to set up FTAs.
I think they are doing OK considering how narrow the window has been
I still believe we would have been better to remain part of the EU. But if that's what democracy chose, then I have to respect it.
Have good evening mate.

.. and to you Sir !

Enjoy that win this weekend

[tabascoboy]

& the fucking bizarre obsession with cheese continues.

Sceptics may laugh but we are going to win global hearts and minds and the glorious empire back with our generously priced Stinking Bishop

[fishfoodie]

& the fucking bizarre obsession with cheese continues.

Sceptics may laugh but we are going to win global hearts and minds and the glorious empire back with our generously priced Stinking Bishop

well you were ....

but then pointed out that you were self-sufficient in milk; so now instead of being able conqueror the culinary world with cheese; you'll now need it to pour on your weetabix

[shereblue]

Any nation leaving the EU after all these years will need time to set up FTAs.

Funny that. Liam Fox asserted last year that we would cut and paste 40 trade deals "the minute" we left the EU

[Rinkals]

Surely Brexit negotiations are more important than anything else in UK in the next 5 years. We should be paying millions to the best deal makers in the private sector to step in pronto. Retail, banking, motor manufacturing, Bimbot’s warehouse, wherever they are - get ‘em in now!

Waste of money hiring negotiators to do the easiest deal in history, innit?

[Longshanks]

Surely Brexit negotiations are more important than anything else in UK in the next 5 years. We should be paying millions to the best deal makers in the private sector to step in pronto. Retail, banking, motor manufacturing, Bimbot’s warehouse, wherever they are - get ‘em in now!

Waste of money hiring negotiators to do the easiest deal in history, innit?

TBF
There are only 3 things holding the deal up
Both sides need to compromise
If they do, then 11 months for a trade deal is impressive.

[shereblue]

Surely Brexit negotiations are more important than anything else in UK in the next 5 years. We should be paying millions to the best deal makers in the private sector to step in pronto. Retail, banking, motor manufacturing, Bimbot’s warehouse, wherever they are - get ‘em in now!

Waste of money hiring negotiators to do the easiest deal in history, innit?

TBF
There are only 3 things holding the deal up
Both sides need to compromise
If they do, then 11 months for a trade deal is impressive.

Not really. If the UK only actually reads the Agreement a few months later and resiles from parts of it.

[Longshanks]

Waste of money hiring negotiators to do the easiest deal in history, innit?

TBF
There are only 3 things holding the deal up
Both sides need to compromise
If they do, then 11 months for a trade deal is impressive.

Not really. If the UK only actually reads the Agreement a few months later and resiles from parts of it.

EU negotiators say it's 95% complete. Take it up with them

[shereblue]

TBF
There are only 3 things holding the deal up
Both sides need to compromise
If they do, then 11 months for a trade deal is impressive.

Not really. If the UK only actually reads the Agreement a few months later and resiles from parts of it.

EU negotiators say it's 95% complete. Take it up with them

So what?

The WA sequence was:

1. "oven ready",
2. then signed,
3. then read
4. then part resiled.

All I can say is you're easily "impressed". I'm more Shania Twain.

[Longshanks]

Not really. If the UK only actually reads the Agreement a few months later and resiles from parts of it.

EU negotiators say it's 95% complete. Take it up with them

not even "oven ready"?

Obviously not, however it would be the EU's "easiest deal in history" if a compromise is found

[shereblue]

EU negotiators say it's 95% complete. Take it up with them

not even "oven ready"?

Obviously not, however it would be the EU's "easiest deal in history" if a compromise is found

"human history" is the idiot quote to which you I think you allude.

[Longshanks]

not even "oven ready"?

Obviously not, however it would be the EU's "easiest deal in history" if a compromise is found

"human history" is the idiot quote to which you I think you allude.

I was quoting Rinkals

[fishfoodie]

TBF
There are only 3 things holding the deal up
Both sides need to compromise
If they do, then 11 months for a trade deal is impressive.

Not really. If the UK only actually reads the Agreement a few months later and resiles from parts of it.

EU negotiators say it's 95% complete. Take it up with them

They did indeed; but unfortunately it's a bit of a meaningless statistic. It's like saying that 99% of the Titanic's voyage went perfectly.

What they meant was that all the stuff both sides agreed on, have been put into the final document, & now there're going over that, so they can get that 95% translated, & not be held up by the stuff that will sail thru.

The problem is, as it always has been, the remaining 5% that isn't moving; & as the EU said at the beginning; "nothing is agreed, until everything is agreed !"

[shereblue]

Obviously not, however it would be the EU's "easiest deal in history" if a compromise is found

"human history" is the idiot quote to which you I think you allude.

I was quoting Rinkals

Much as I also respect Rinkals, I suspect he was also alluding to Fox's idiot quote. He'd probably have been more authoritative had he referred to asinine history.

[Longshanks]

Just to be clear
I am only 50% that we'll have a deal
But if it happens......
Brexit is a nonsense in truth, but hopefully the damage is limited.

[dpedin]

Not sure a deal makes a lot of difference now! Its likely to be a very 'thin' deal and is probably not going to mitigate all the shit happening on the 1st January and is unlikely to make a huge difference to the longer term. Damage is baked in, Brexit is shit, hopefully those who promised the 'sunlit uplands' will own the consequences. However I see the 'its covid19 fault' and 'the nasty EU wouldn't give us the deal we wanted' shit has started in earnest.

[Sandstorm]

[Rinkals]

Obviously not, however it would be the EU's "easiest deal in history" if a compromise is found

"human history" is the idiot quote to which you I think you allude.

I was quoting Rinkals

I am indeed at fault.